My thoughts in chronological order:
- Map is very dark.
- I like it, it looks promising.
- The door in base is 'slow' on purpose but is it really necessary?
- I like the fact that you can jump on the roofs, that aspect is missing on pretty much all the map nowadays (I don't really get why).
- Tons of bugs when you jump on them, though. You can even get out of the map.
- I'm not sure about the combo 'slow door' + water & little stairs just in front of the flag.
- Have you considered adding 2 more Regen? Map seems big enough to allow it.
- You might open this railing, à la Pillbox, so if you see something interesting @mid through the glass you can make a rj and take the appropriate action quickly.
- It seems kinda easy to defend the base (MH + YA & a lot of camping spots) so 2 regen would surely spice things up.
- OK, the 'slow door' isn't that bad actually, I get it now.
- This little plinth is annoying.
Overall map seems great, good flow, tricks allowed, I hope it well get added.
Last edited by me; 03-24-2014 at 12:06 PM.
Here are my thoughts.
Way way way too dark!
The jumppad in the middle needs a bigger trigger box, also needs to have some side movement, it's going straight up now. Would also make the jumpheight a little higher.
RA + 40hp is a little too much, perhaps change them with a 25 bubble on each side of it so at least it isn't additional health.`
I would increase the angle of the jumppad to lg so u can walk into it instead of having to jump onto it from the lower side.
A YA and MH next to eachother is really a lot of resources in a flagbase. Especially with 20 armor and 20hp in shards and extra.
It's very easy to hit the ceiling/top floor when going up the RL jumppad.`
The mid and base are very decorated, the hallways less so. Mostly the walls are kinda flat. Maybe you can let the trims stick out a little?
It's possible to rj on top of the map, you might wanna put some clips to avoid that.
You've used some of the wrong light textures, theyre nonsolid which means you can look though them. In the industrial texture pack use the left one they're the solid ones.
The ceiling height from mid to green armor "cellar" is very low while taking the stairs on both sides.
Perhaps swap the GL and RG?
Theres just the bridge in the center and no other way up to the top, at the LG and 2x 25 bubbles you could add a stairs perhaps? And at the other side perhaps a jumppad near the top YA?
I think the overall map looks pretty nice, will most likely suit 5v5 more then 4v4 due to the size. The base looks nice and unique with some fun ideas implemented pretty well, same goes for the middle which has some nice features although lacks a little accessibility at the moment. The middle floor is a little empty with items. The room above the GL is empty and has no real purpose which is kinda confusing while running through the map. With some work I could see this map working out in QL. Good luck with your map.
Looks really great. Seems like it could be a lot of fun. A couple of things i thought about when running through it.
I like that mega positions, maybe you could add the slick shader so that you glide down, like on pillbox - gliding down to rg and some other positions.
Around that area, I think it would be great to have a skilljump up to rg. You can opt for the safe option (jumppad) or you can risk a jump that might fail and slow you down. A pipe or a light that sticks out of the wall is all you need.
I like the general feel of the base, for example the unconvetional hight of the second level. Generally it is much higher. Perhaps you should think about removing the pillars, the structure close to the flag. The map might suffer, like cold cathode, from not offering exciting combat in the flagroom itself due to little room for actually fighting.
I'm also not sure if you really need the doors in the base. I'm talking about that escape route, not the doors in them selves. Even me, with my crappy movement, can just strafe right through the map really quickly - like 9 seconds. Perhaps the stairs are enough? I mean you can switch to that same spot right below the stairs anyway.
The mid and outer base areas are really nice - i have no good suggestions for you there. Perhaps you could make it possible to jump across mid "outside" of the structure at the RA position. You can jump on the side of it, but you cant jump all the way to the other side - I just think it would add some exciting possibilities.
Item placement is brilliant in my opinion. I will whine about the red armor though. A huge item, necessary to fight for, in mid. Risk is that it will be like troubled waters or shining forces where many players seems to be more interesting in timeing red than getting flags. I don't think the map is large enough to have 3 pu's like someone suggested. To me it is definatly a 4v4 map. Perhaps random spawn in mid of regen and quad would be good. Only regen in mid works for ironworks, perhaps here too. But, lets face it, quad is more fun, so i would think random spawns could be worth a try.
Like i said first, it looks really fun to play. I really hope to see a "community mappack" with this, q50's and emeraldtigers maps in it. Damn pickups would be great fun.
K I will try to answer to most of the suggestions:
- I know you still can go outside of the map atm clipping areas will be the last thing I will do
- I think if I would remove the entrance with the door it could get to easy to defend because the defender just has to stay at the place where the GL is atm and so he would see high incomings and hear low incomings, only the basement entrance would be out of his sight
- Many people already complained about the height of the cellar but I think I will keep it that way because like that this escape route is a bit slower if you take it and with 4 exits of the base it imo reasonable to make 1 bit slower
- The red in mid is every minute so I think even with the additional 20hp the attackers shouldn't be too take, but maybe I will consider to move the yellow at the high route to a spot low somewhere
- Switching the GL and RG is actually a good idea which I followed because otherwise this way would probably not too much used to enter the base because of no benefit. Also because the LG is already far away from base and I think at least LG or RG should be easier accessible for base
- Btw I wonder how you can say the Red + 20hp bubbles are too much when you say in the next sentence the base def got too much stack . I think I should probably remove a few of the 5hp bubbles and shards but actually its the same amount of stack the defender got on ironworks and the base there got less entrances and is easier to defend imo
- I got no idea what you mean about the slick shader and the skilljump to rail corvu.
- I will definitely keep quad in mid but also consider to randomly shuffle it with regen
- About weapon placement at all its funny because everybody got an other opinion about it, I guess it just depends on the position your play and maybe the weapons your prefer. At the first version I had the RG on the platform but Q50 told me it could end up being 1 team having control over mid and keep the other team from keeping it which would probably end up in on team completely dominating the middle. So I decided to put the LG there so the team with midcontrol benefits in easy pickup of the weapon and a small advantage but not complete domination because I think the mid is to big and high to dominate it with LG.
I will post an updated version with some designwise changes soon.
slick shader: textures - common - slick
It reduces friction, so that you cant stand on a inclined plane, you glide off it. Would make it so that you glide, like on ice, down when you take mega.
By a skill jump i mean a jump that you need to learn, for example, learning to jump from shards to shards on spider crossings (an easy skilljump, but risky because you can fail).
Keep it up, it looks like it could be alot of fun.
Btw I wonder how you can say the Red + 20hp bubbles are too much when you say in the next sentence the base def got too much stack . I think I should probably remove a few of the 5hp bubbles and shards but actually its the same amount of stack the defender got on ironworks and the base there got less entrances and is easier to defend imo
The thing with Ironworks base is that it's very close to mid, you can even rail into the base from mid. Besides that you've got the threat of people coming in with a RA+LG from your back. I don't mind the YA + MH, I just think the added shards and 5 bubbles might be too much.
The red with bubbles concern lies in the fact that quad is right below it. That's why 25 bubbles would be a better option I think. Instead of a possible +40hp +100 armor (140/100) you get a max of 100/100. But it's your choice in the end .
- multiple texture changes
- switched the spots of the green armor in the basement and the yellow armor on the high entrance
- switched the sports of the railgun and the grenade-launcher
- clipped areas that should not be accessible
- removed half of the 5 health bubbles in mid
- added some pipes behind glass in the lower corridors
Download: CTF1 update
K I would like to have some other opinions about what people I showed the map were complaining about:
- The map is to complicated. Hard to communicate where flagcarriers are going
- The map is to open and to hard to cross mid as attacker
- The LG is to far away for basedef/attackers
Ok, i have run through it again a couple of times.
first point - I dont agree with those who say that it is too complicated. Perhaps there is some truth to it being hard to communicate where efc is leaving though. Play testing will tell.
second point - Too open, hard to cross, seems like rubbish to me. It isn't more open than any of the played maps, except for Ironworks.
Third point - I don't really know. But I would suggest that one of the most interesting things about Finnegans and Ironworks is that the defenders most important weapons isn't available to him without the help of team mates. Play testing is really the only way to answer questions like this imo.
edit: red/blue concrete
I like how you used the blue concrete textures in this version (or did i miss them last time? perhaps i did), it looks good. Perhaps try neutral (grey) concrete floors in base on those levels where you use blue concrete as trims? Keep it up, good progress.
Last edited by corvu; 04-04-2014 at 02:31 PM.
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