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Thread: Please provide a non-Level3 routed Europe server

  1. #1
    Junior Member aeyes is on a distinguished road
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    Please provide a non-Level3 routed Europe server

    Hi,

    some of the European servers are hosted by i3d.net and most of them have the same uplink provider - Level3. Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Milan? all have Level3 uplink, maybe more. These servers are also regionally very close to each other so we essentially get the same ping to them from central Europe.
    It also means that we cannot play on a lot of servers if our ISP has issues with their routing to Level3. This is currently happening (again) since a week for at least everybody on the biggest German ISP Deutsche Telekom (80-120 ping instead of 40) and we are forced to play UK or Sweden servers which is not optimal.

    Can we please get another server in central Europe which has a different uplink provider? I suggest euNetworks (Lambdanet) which pings 5-10ms better than the current Frankfurt server from many places in Europe. Please use one of these websites which ping from different locations - you will see that euNetworks ping is a bit better from most locations in Europe.

    As a trade, the Rotterdam server can be retired as its no better than Amsterdam.
    Poland server is regionally close but the polish providers have issues with packet loss so most people outside Poland cannot play on this server.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Cat will become famous soon enough Cat will become famous soon enough Cat's Avatar
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    Yes, please. I've been having an unstable and pure crap ping to those servers for a couple of years now. 70-80. In other games my ping to those locations is a nice and stable 32.

  3. #3
    Senior Member whodares is on a distinguished road
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    F1 to the above: But as a side note you can try the likes of VPN to see if helps... :>

  4. #4
    Senior Member drohne is on a distinguished road
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    iam living in germany and have the present situation that in the morning till afternoon i have ping 30 to frankfurt, in the evening i get around 80 up to 100, whereas i got to england a steady ping 30
    imo the german telekom is doing some maintenance and rerouting us to frankfurt, that kinda issue i got some months ago already, than my ping again worked for months with a steady 30 to frankfurt.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Flanger is on a distinguished road Flanger's Avatar
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    You see from your ISP's perspective. I believe Level3 is their main upstream ISP, hence most of destination networks for your ISP are routed through Level3 MPLS transit. Check RIPE whois database for i3d. They're pretty big transit themselves

  6. #6
    Junior Member aeyes is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flanger View Post
    You see from your ISP's perspective. I believe Level3 is their main upstream ISP, hence most of destination networks for your ISP are routed through Level3 MPLS transit. Check RIPE whois database for i3d. They're pretty big transit themselves
    OK, here are their connections: http://bgp.he.net/AS49544#_peers. Not many of them are relevant for Europe and its easy to see that they only have one big uplink: Level3
    The transits also don't mean much because transit locations are limited and it looks like i3d locations aren't routing transit traffic through their own backbone.
    They claim to have a Cogent Uplink which seems to be for the Rotterdam server. To me it looks like it isn't the preferred route and I can't even get this route if I trace from Cogent Looking Glass. Most of the time I go through Global Crossings which was (surprise!) aquired by Level3.
    I would appreciate it if you did some traces yourself from different locations. You will see that you go through Level3 95% of the times. The other 5% you are probably in NL.

    Since this is the case, the servers which I named are essentially the same, ping difference is minimal because they are regionally close. I would appreciate it if we could get something else. Its Europe which has the most online tournaments and probably the biggest playerbase. Moscow has several servers and also Sydney. I don't see a reason why we can't have Frankfurt 2 or Amsterdam 2 with a different uplink provider.

  7. #7
    Junior Member kodisha is on a distinguished road
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    Yes PLEASE, we are having problems from Serbia (Serbia Telekom) to .de servers since infamous march 2012 update. It went from 48 to 70 since.

    Please fix routing!

  8. #8
    Junior Member aeyes is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by kodisha View Post
    Please fix routing!
    The routing doesn't need fixing. Its ok for people with good connections to Level3. Unfortunately, quite a bunch of ISPs from all over Europe have issues with that. So what would help is a server which doesn't connect to the internet through Level3.

  9. #9
    *Lupusceleri
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    Hello all,

    I'm Martijn Schmidt from the i3D.net NOC. Since we host some of these servers (Rotterdam + Frankfurt) I would like to shed some light on the way our network is built.

    http://noc.i3d.net/network/
    http://noc.i3d.net/peering/
    http://www.peeringdb.com/view.php?asn=49544

    We operate a very peering-heavy network, in fact nearly 50% of our traffic world-wide is sent through internet exchanges rather than transit. If you only count European traffic that peering:transit ratio will probably be even better. As you can see we are present on many European IXP, and have an open peering policy. This means every ISP that wants to peer, can send us a request and we'll accept.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeyes View Post
    This is currently happening (again) since a week for at least everybody on the biggest German ISP Deutsche Telekom (80-120 ping instead of 40) and we are forced to play UK or Sweden servers which is not optimal.
    Unfortunately this problem is of DTAG's own making. They have a very restrictive peering policy, and even though we have several common points of presence they're actively refusing to setup direct connections with AS49544.

    This high latency is something which DTAG could solve at any moment, IF they wished to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeyes View Post
    As a trade, the Rotterdam server can be retired as its no better than Amsterdam.
    We are only hosting the Rotterdam + Frankfurt servers, and do not have hardware in Amsterdam.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeyes View Post
    Poland server is regionally close but the polish providers have issues with packet loss so most people outside Poland cannot play on this server.
    Polish players could also join the Frankfurt servers: we have a router in Warsaw where we connect to the PLIX, and have our own fiber-optical transport over a low-latency route from Frankfurt to Warsaw. We have peering sessions with nearly every Polish ISP, and are working on a cooperation with the last two.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeyes View Post
    OK, here are their connections: http://bgp.he.net/AS49544#_peers. Not many of them are relevant for Europe and its easy to see that they only have one big uplink: Level3
    While Hurricane made a nice tool, it's not very accurate at all. The real transit situation is as follows right now:

    Rotterdam: Level3, GlobalCrossing, Cogent
    Frankfurt: Level3, GlobalCrossing

    GlobalCrossing is going to be replaced with NTT on both locations, in Frankfurt probably before the end of 2013 and in Rotterdam the planning is set for Q1 2014.

    We also have many more peers than listed here. Since you appear to be German I'll give a few local examples of our DE-CIX peers: Vodafone/Arcor, KabelDeutschland, Telefonica, KabelBW, NetCologne, Versatel, QSC, M-Net, et cetera.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeyes View Post
    The transits also don't mean much because transit locations are limited and it looks like i3d locations aren't routing transit traffic through their own backbone.
    We don't route transit-traffic from Germany through Rotterdam, such hairpins only increase the latency.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeyes View Post
    They claim to have a Cogent Uplink which seems to be for the Rotterdam server. To me it looks like it isn't the preferred route and I can't even get this route if I trace from Cogent Looking Glass.
    Our Frankfurt prefixes (among which is 91.198.152.0/24) are not advertised to Rotterdam's transit providers to prevent hairpinning. Which IP are you tracing to?

    Quote Originally Posted by kodisha View Post
    Yes PLEASE, we are having problems from Serbia (Serbia Telekom) to .de servers since infamous march 2012 update. It went from 48 to 70 since.

    Please fix routing!
    Is this still ongoing, and can you post a MTR + source IP address so we can troubleshoot? Telekom Srbija is one of our peers so Level3 is not involved here. You may also e-mailto info@i3d.net referring this post.
    Last edited by Lupusceleri; 12-11-2013 at 05:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Junior Member DefDogs is on a distinguished road
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    Wow, for the first time ever I see a support reply of such a quality.

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