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  1. #1
    Member TriOpted is on a distinguished road
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    remove timenudge

    many people have been using timenudge negatively with 20ish pings making their netgraph look crazy and they become more 'choppy'/'warping'

    this makes them harder to hit and provides their screen with a quicker response
    -imo an unfair advantage


    just a suggestion ^

  2. #2
    Senior Member FlashSoul will become famous soon enough FlashSoul will become famous soon enough FlashSoul's Avatar
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    Using timenudge cannot make you choppy to others. It can only make others choppy to you.

  3. #3
    Senior Member infntnub is on a distinguished road infntnub's Avatar
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    Ah timenudge...

    I hear it aims for you.
    Quake 3 1.16n Noghost iFreezetag

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  4. #4
    Senior Member NEPHIREM is on a distinguished road NEPHIREM's Avatar
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    I'm nudging all the time. :coffee:

  5. #5
    Member TriOpted is on a distinguished road
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    negative i have over 4k demos of people using timenudge that make them warp .. and its the same as the net_graph... when you see breaks spikes in the graph .. they players are also choppy .. you may not notice it as you may not use a crt with 0 ms conversion time to show the picture ^

    but i sure as hell notice it

  6. #6
    Senior Member Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriOpted View Post
    negative i have over 4k demos of people using timenudge that make them warp ..
    You know what value of timenudge they are using how?

    and its the same as the net_graph... when you see breaks spikes in the graph .. they players are also choppy ..
    Spikes are not caused by timenudge.

    Warping is not caused by timenudge either.

    Warping is caused by:

    A. Packet loss (rare)

    and

    B. A rapidly fluctuating ping that fluctuates past a certain deviation.

    Timenudge is a _client side_ variable that deals with how your position and the position of enemy players are perceived by your client and your client only.

    Having a player set timenudge to 0 won't stop them from warping if they are, because it has nothing to do with it.

    you may not notice it as you may not use a crt with 0 ms conversion time to show the picture ^

    but i sure as hell notice it
    What you're seeing is warping, and you don't need a crt to see it.

    I happen to be a crt user though.
    Last edited by Lorfa; 06-07-2013 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Not sure if TN can be seen in other's netgraphs, tests pending.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mr_Bombadil1 is on a distinguished road
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    wow over 4k demos, impressive collection, damn those dirty timenudge haxorizors, good work keep it up

  8. #8
    Senior Member drohne is on a distinguished road
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    on the matter of timenudge i guess it would do some good if someone could give an explanation with expertise how it works and if it has ANY influence on other playerz.
    What i know is, that since q3 ppl are telling that certain timenudge (negative numbers) settings gives an advantage to ppl with lowpings.
    I dunno if its tru, but i was told that timenudge is a possibility for forcing the client to show the latest position of your enemies quicker than it would normally update that information. this works, cuz negative timenudge setting reduces the interpolation time.
    So you may have some advantage ingame. But this ofc dont explains the warping issue.

    so the big question is, what is the explanation for

    a player with a steady low ping with bigtime warping
    no other player warps
    but instead of his warpin he can hold a high rg acc + a steady high lg acc !?


    btw: if someone tells me its kinda magick workin, i will bruzel him without mercy
    Last edited by drohne; 06-17-2013 at 02:23 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drohne View Post
    on the matter of timenudge i guess it would do some good if someone could give an explanation with expertise how it works and if it has ANY influence on other playerz.
    It can't have any affect on other clients because it has to do with how information is displayed on the client's screen.

    What i know is, that since q3 ppl are telling that certain timenudge (negative numbers) settings gives an advantage to ppl with lowpings.
    It's disabled on lan, and I don't think that the server can change the cvars of the client, so I suspect that it is done by ping. If it uses ping to determine whether to allow its action or not, then it stands to reason that it is also disabled in online play when under a certain ping.

    Ping is already considered in the code for autoTimeNudge, so it wouldn't be too difficult to just have it disabled if the ping is lower than some number. I don't know what this number would be though.

    It's difficult to test for since I'd have to find people with connections of different very low ping times, and hope that their netgraph can pick up the characteristic yellow underside to the top bar at that ping.

    I dunno if its tru, but i was told that timenudge is a possibility for forcing the client to show the latest position of your enemies quicker than it would normally update that information. this works, cuz negative timenudge setting reduces the interpolation time. So you may have some advantage ingame.
    See this page here: http://forums.gamearena.com.au/quake...ge-really-does

    Keep in mind that quake live uses sv_fps 40, so the "built-in" lag is 25 ms. There is also some backwards reconciliation (anti-lag) going on, along with the standard prediction code (cg_nopredict 1 for a laugh).

    With timenudge 0 what you see on-screen is more trustworthy, at the cost of extra latency. With very low timenudge (such as autoTN) you can get entities to show much more quickly, albeit much less smoothly (closer to that 40 fps) and perhaps less truthfully.

    But this ofc dont explains the warping issue.
    Using a very low timenudge will make other players appear choppy to you. It will not make you appear choppy to them.

    Warping to other players is caused by one or all of three things:

    1. Packet loss (rare)

    2. Extremely low fps (very rare)

    3. A rapidly changing ping time past a certain deviation (most common cause)

    so the big question is, what is the explanation for a player with a steady low ping with bigtime warping
    When you look at a player's ping in the scoreboard you are seeing a delayed value since it is not updated so quickly.

    It is updated much faster in the netgraph and this is your best chance to see what's going on. You can spectate them and use cg_lagometer 2 which gives a reasonably accurate picture. Almost all warpers have a characteristic "sawtooth" ping line in their netgraph along with the rapidly fluctuating ping past a certain range (15 ms?).

    no other player warps but instead of his warpin he can hold a high rg acc + a steady high lg acc !?
    While packet loss and very low fps make it really difficult to play, a rapidly changing ping time seems to be less destructive (although it's no picnic I've been told).

    Keep in mind that even if you're on lan, there is some discrepancy between what you see on the screen and what's really happening. There is always some built-in latency (like the 25 ms mentioned above). Some lcd displays have plenty of output latency too.

    Also it's been suggested that the human brain's perception is 80 ms behind the present, with the average reaction time being 150-200 ms. Very fast reactors can react faster than 150 ms, but for example in track and field anything faster than 100 ms reaction to start moving off the block is considered a false start.

    I don't think reaction time is particularly important in quake, but that's another story. The point is that there are plenty of latencies involved even in ideal situations, and good players don't take what they see so literally.

    Players can get a feel for filtering through all of these various latencies. Coupling that with prediction, positioning, and map knowledge and you can see how they can manage through the lag.

    Of course I wish something could be done to the netcode to prevent warping players outright.

  10. #10
    Senior Member drohne is on a distinguished road
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    first big thx for ur explanations lorfa!

    but me main question seems not to be answered: why only one player with lowping (30) is warpin on ME screen. if all other players and i do NOT warp, it cant have sth to do with me con, and why this player can warp heavily on ME screen but seems able to play without any disturbances on his aim and movementskill.
    Everybody who tried to play, letz say with a ping of 200 and above, knows how hard it is to hit anything, or at least has some serious influence of ones gameplay.
    And on me screen some guyz with letz say ping 30 warp like a player with instable ping 200 and above.
    No skill can imo explain a lg acc of 30-40 percent despite of heavy warping.
    Conclusion: if on HIS screen he is NOT warping (which would explain his undisturbed lg accuracy), so why is he then warpin on ME screen, which ofc makes him hard to hit
    Last edited by drohne; 06-17-2013 at 06:21 AM.

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