Incredible job Emerald. Everyone should really check this map out and provide him feedback during his beta phase.
EmeraldTiger, I know it is pretty extreme but how do you feel about killing off the entire base and putting flag into the YA room (maybe extend it a bit in size so you end up with roughly the same base size as you got now)?
Edit: The idea is simply to have less stuff going on between base and mid, based on my critics for the earlier versions.
Last edited by cityy; 10-21-2013 at 12:06 PM.
Hey Emerald, I think you've done really well with this map to be honest..the detail is fantastic and i love the feel of the map generally, especially the mid which is so well shaped imo and feels pretty interesting throughout.
While I like it and everything! things I feel I should mention that could be looked at for potential improvement are:
1) "Hello Chaingun. We meet again". Its so frustrating to see a map which is so well put together have a gun that pretty much rules it out for consideration for the competitive scene. I mean its hard enough to get ladders onto maps without creating massive amounts of hate but a chaingun map will never be taken seriously in quakelive, literally ever. As soon as I saw the chaingun, my reaction was something like this:
2) The mid is great but it really bugs me how you can't get out of the water easier at various points because its slightly too high, even if it looks like its almost possible. I can imagine that will really bug quakers in general! I'd love to see it possible to get out of the water onto any ledges all around. It would just feel a lot nicer imo!
3) I feel there is an obvious favourable route out for flag runners which is to Take the flag > hit the pad > down that left side high > then down the pipe, to which you are pretty near the jumppad already and can even RJ to above the jumppad straight into mid from the water the split second you leave the pipe, once you can get up that jumppad then you are easily at the best position to cross mid (a quick well placed rocket jump can cross mid here in less than a second really), which is why i think its absolutely crucial that this area does not have an enormous amount of bubbles. Once you go down the pipe you are just surrounded by health orientated items, such as the mega, medkit, a 50hp bubble, and then just along from that at the start of mid high (the best route) is another 25hp bubble. I can't help but think this has to be looked at. I'm wondering if it may be worth you considering doing something a little bit drastic like removing the medkit entirely, and placing the 50hp there instead, and just keeping that 25hp where it is but nothing in the corner where the 50hp currently sits.
Overall though it looks brilliant with plenty of potential. I can't wait to play it hopefully in the future please please please consider dropping the chaingun though especially! in quake2 yes its great but in quakelive it will never ever be accepted. Someone could make the most amazing map in the world, but put a chaingun on it and thats it, gg, rip :/
Last edited by Q50; 10-21-2013 at 01:48 PM.
Great looking map with a lot of things to like about it.
Mid looks great, I agree with the water being hard to get out of. Now it might push people to go through the underwater teleport, but mostly I think people would get annoyed, since it looks like they can easily get out (with out diving out).
It will be a mid you can quickly pass, since on both sides there is a straight path between the doors to run through or rj off the side and get across super quick. Might just mean more player present in mid covering that possibility.
I do think cityy is on to something with the base. It seems less part of the map, then mid and the between bits are. So maybe the base could be changed and moved closer and integrated in the next "rooms" towards the middle of the map... Or simply remove the base and change around the part between mid and the now base room, and place the flag another place. Maybe at like mega or on the platform at the end of the 5 hp bubbles leading from base. Of course would need some changes to make that fit, but I think flag area would feel more part of the map, if flag got closer.
Would in any case like to see chaingun removed or possibly changed to nailgun.
But best of luck with the map.
Oh and the turrets outside are awesome
Thanks for letting us test ur map and give u some feedback.
Your map looks very well done.
I agree with previous comments, remove the chaingun. Keep it if u want it to be a public/fest map.
The mid looks great, also love the medkit tunnel, but u do get stuck in water at RA wich q50 pointed out, very annoying. Having RA in water will make the map very mid heavy wich imo is bad.
Rest of the map is done well aswell, but i look at the map in my perspectiv as in to play it competetive. And looking at it that way i dont like it.
The area between Mid and Base is big and way to complex. I like it more Simple, and if u look at the popular p1, p9 etc theyr Simple.
I do think this map has potential, but im not sure that u have been thinking it through positon-wise, wich i think is the most important part when making a map. Right now it feels like u need to play it 5v5, and the "job" for the deff and a mid is too much without having players coming into base unseen very often.
This could solve it self if you just work around the big, and complex area between mid and base. Consider removing the RA on mid aswell.
Might update my post later with some tip when i tried the map some more.
( http://www.esreality.com/post/249584...-emeraldtiger/ )
Last edited by ph0enX; 10-23-2013 at 08:27 AM.
really good looking map with potential.
Since CTF really needs good competitive maps I also, just like the other, look at it in that way.
That already brings me to the first point: PLEASE remove the chaingun
That gun is really not competitive suitable and needs to be replaced. Nailgun might be an option just like tg suggested. However, I would go for something else maybe.
I also agree with Q50 about the medkit/50hp/mh area. Since this part seems to me the most used _direct_ way to get in/out it shouldn't be possible to stack up that much there. You should consider some replacments. If you want to keep the medkit I'd suggest the following: Swap the medkit with the GA above the medkit and put 5 shards instead of the 50 health bubble.
Overall I really like the way how rooms are connected and I wouldn't change much about it. I don't agree with removing the flag room. It's really good as it is and it doesn't necessarily need to be _more_ part of the map.
You can do really great caps with the current concept:
I also don't think that it is too complex. I actually like the architecture. It might feel big or 5on5 like but I guess defs just need to play in the 2 front areas (SG and RG room) rather than staying at flag the whole day ;x
As you can see in my demos, Im quite fast through mid on the sides. Maybe you should consider slowing it down a bit (even though I like to get there through that fast ;p).
You could slow it down by simply integrate it with the mid bit above quad. So that it'll form a cross. The straight way would be removed and instead there is just a gap or something with a grid on each side so that you cant rocket jump from one door to the other.
That would also mean, that the whole mid bit becomes more important. Otherwise ppl would just go along the sides.
Ah, and about the water, yeah, I totally agree. People would hate it if you can't get out of the water as expected. It's really hard at the moment. You have to dive and when you get up you'll have to go straight for the edge, otherwise you cant get out of the water.
Also, Im not sure whether it is a bug or made on purpose, there is a grid at GA (near chaingun) which opens up when you pickup the GA. But only when you pick the GA. If there is no GA the grid wont open. You may change that as well (maybe).
Im really looking forward to the final map and I hope we'll have something new in our mappools soon
Those shooting cannons are the best thing i've seen in ages
Thanks for your feedback guys! I knew people would show an interest in the cannons, hehe. I made several changes to the item placement to hopefully strike a balance between the various suggestions offered, as well as raising the water level. I will admit that I am somewhat uncomfortable with reducing the size of the bases, though I acknowledge and understand the concerns.
@vsm: The bars only opening for the GA is intentional.
New Cerberon - Beta 2:
- RA in mid replaced with new Medkit.
- Old medkit replaced with GA.
- GA next to bars replaced with Mega.
- Mega replaced with Regen.
- CG replaced with LG.
- Old LG replaced with YA.
- Upper YA in mid-base removed; moved GL to this location.
- Lower 50+ health in cannon room removed; upper 50+ health
next to flag room replaced with 25+ health.
- Removed 25+ health bubbles at side walkways in mid.
- Raised the water level slightly to fix issues with players
having difficulty in getting onto the low side platforms
adjacent to the water in mid.
- (Unintentionally) fixed a bug that caused the colored strip
lights to cast pure white light instead of proper colored
- Minor visual alterations / fixes.
Dont have had English lessons on school ?
You dont understand word i just word do you?
- Draven of LowLandLions
Check out my blog, EmeraldProductions:
Cool, I really like this version. The maps looks like it could be really fun to play.
About weapon placement. All 3 major weapons are placed very close to each other. On spawn you pick up plasma > shaft > rail > rl. This will have certain effects on gameplay. Most importantly it will make gameplay rather slow. All fresh spawners need to go to the same spot (players standing waiting in line) and all fresh spawners will eventually have all the good weapons which means you need to chase more. My suggestion would be to put shaft in base at rl spawn (away from the defenders prefered position on top), and put rl up top besides the door on the right. Then I would put the mid rocket launcher on the platform above pu, like on infinity. What you would like to have happen is that a fresh spawner quickly can pick up ONE major weapon, so that he can be useful immediatly, but not all weapons so that he is prepared for every possible situation.
I am not a defender, but it seems to me that there needs to be more health in base. I don't know the proper amount, but more.
Thanks for your hard work, the ctf community really needs new finely tuned maps.
Edit: I do love the cannons! But, while running around the map i reacted to the sound of them fireing. Since sound ques is such a important aspect of ctf maybe this feature isn't the best idea.
Last edited by corvu; 10-27-2013 at 06:15 AM.
nice to see the update.
But I have to agree with corvu. Rail, LG and Rocket are almost on the same position.
This needs to be sorted. I guess corvus idea is test worthy.
The RL above quad, shaft in base where the RL is atm and RL next to MH (instead of shaft)
There should be a little amount of ammo for the base def so that he doesn't need to run around too much. (for rail and rl maybe, not sure about it atm)
It looks like that the map will be played with a 2-2 lineup (2def, 2off) while one def will play MH + GA and rails mid + support and one def staying in base stacked by 2 YAs. I guess I like that.
There are also enough obvious and sneaky ways for the offence.
3 powerups are also way better. CTF maps with 2+ powerups are almost always more interesting.
Keep up the good work!
As corvu said, we really need good balanced new maps for competitive CTF.