New Cerberon (Alpha 1) - newcerberon_a1.bsp - by EmeraldTiger

[EmeraldTiger]

New Cerberon - by Ricardo "EmeraldTiger" Stevenson
Alpha 3 (Updated 3/31/2013)

The initial news of the GTKRadiant 1.6 build announcing QL support was exciting to hear, so I decided to begin work on a new CTF map. Looking for some possible themes, I decided that I would go with a Strogg based aesthetic once I get to the visuals, after being awestruck by cityy's marvelous Strogg textures used in three of the Premium Pack 15 maps. The map is named after the Strogg capital city in the Quake 2 storyline.

The map supports classic CTF, as well as One Flag CTF, Harvester, Attack & Defend, and Domination.




Download: (Alpha 3)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/newcerberon_a3.zip

Feedback:
- Bugs (check all supported gametypes)
- Item Placement
- Inconsistencies between bases (I copy and flip the bases and then make minor adjustments as needed if they're quick and easy enough, then I check both sides thoroughly. But it's still possible for something to slip up, so if you notice anything in one base that isn't reflected in the other, notify me.)
- Botplay

ETA:
- Location markers
- Visuals

Thank you for your time, and have fun!

[pikaluva13]

It seems like it's way too easy to capture the flag. With the most direct route (running through the middle), you can get sub-10 seconds captures with just a single rocket jump used to assure you can make the gap above the lightning gun. It also seems like the defender has to go quite a bit away from their flag so they can ensure that they have a weapon (Unless they're given weapons by teammates). There's also a lot of straight lines, which makes it really easy for somebody to get several rails onto another player. I'm not sure how to alleviate this though as I don't really know much about map design, but these are the thoughts that initially popped up from looking at it.

[MexicanPadre]

What I like about this map- Lots of different routes to take to the flag and back, water pool in the center.

What i don't like/needs to be fixed- There are a lot of different routes to be taken to get to the flag, but why take them when there are 3 straight lines from each base? I recommend taking out the corridor leading to the center room from each base (the path where you take the jumppad on the same floor as the flag.)

Also, the water routes need to be fixed. if you go by water you are a sitting duck for some time, so i recommend maybe using a darker or less clear texture for water so that players will not easily be seen.

Also, you should switch the places between RA and Regeneration since there should be more risk getting a power-up than armor.

[cityy]

Personally, I disagree with swapping RA and the PU as the latter is usually more contested and the whole team should have timing on it. If it was in the water it would end up pretty TDM'ish in mid as you'd want to have the room secured before dropping into the water so you can get a bit of a stacked PU carrier and actually make something happen. I agree on maybe using a less clear water shader though.
Regarding cap times, I don't think it is something you need to be concerned about. There are quite a few ctf maps you can cap on very quickly in theory while it is a lot harder with enemy players in your way.

[pikaluva13]

Personally, I disagree with swapping RA and the PU as the latter is usually more contested and the whole team should have timing on it. If it was in the water it would end up pretty TDM'ish in mid as you'd want to have the room secured before dropping into the water so you can get a bit of a stacked PU carrier and actually make something happen. I agree on maybe using a less clear water shader though.
Regarding cap times, I don't think it is something you need to be concerned about. There are quite a few ctf maps you can cap on very quickly in theory while it is a lot harder with enemy players in your way.

However, just from looking at the weapon placement and thinking about the map, if they're in mid just waiting and they get knocked off by a carrier's teammate, they're just stuck in the water spamming towards the FC. There's not really an "easy" way to stop them while running through mid without having somebody with weapons. While I understand that in most situations there will probably be at least one person with weapons in between, what do you do about the situations where they're there, but then get knocked into the water?

I think the main issue is probably just weapon placement though, although again, I don't know how to fix that.

[baaked]

I like this map. The layout is a bit complicated, perhaps you could reconsider including all the weapons, if that would reduce the complexity a bit. Certainly plasma, rail, and rocket will play strong roles, but LG might make play too easy here.

Layout reduction is really necessary. Expect base defense players to frequently lose out on their mega to either uninitated offensive players, or sly enemy offensive players, it is very much out of the way of a reasonable path for the base-d to follow.

Also consider that there are 5 asymmetrical entries into each base. If you expect players to communicate about the state of affairs (they do), you must reduce the complexity, because right now it might take 3 defensive players per side to adequately defend base. Far too complex. Also consider a boost pad across high mid

In the current state of affairs, base entry only marginally corresponds to where attack will occur. So even if mid can communicate which of the 4 double-doors, or rail-water entry the enemy offense has entered through, it isn't necessarily correlateable to where they will be attacking from. So whoever has picked up mega, ya, sg, rl, lg, and is standing on the third tier above flag, there's no way to predict and position themselves adequately for an attack. Nevermind that two players could enter base at the same time. Base entry to flag is a labyrinth, rather than a set of choke points which can be communicated about.

I like the design, but it must be simplified!

[FlashSoul]

but LG might make play too easy here.

With all of those pillars? I'm not so sure about that.

[pikaluva13]

With all of those pillars? I'm not so sure about that.

I think he means due to a lack of available weapons to defend with on short notice. Seeing as there's only the shotgun, if the defender has to hurriedly defend, they'd be fighting with shotgun vs lg. (In which the lg would win most likely)

[MexicanPadre]

Imo, LG kills any CTF map. But that's just me. My problem with this map is that if you open all the doors you can practically see to the flag base from across the map.

[EmeraldTiger]

New Cerberon - by Ricardo "EmeraldTiger" Stevenson
Alpha 2

Download: (Alpha 2)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/ma...erberon_a2.zip

Changelog:

- Expanded the flag rooms. (resp. to cityy)

- Added a new route connecting the flag rooms and the MH
water area. (resp. to cityy)

- LG moved to new part of MH water area; a SG takes its
place. (resp. to baaked, pikaluva13)

- Moved PG over to former RL location.

- Moved SG over to the former PG location.

- Moved RL to the original SG flag room location. (resp. to byce)

- Swapped upper GA and frontline YA. (resp. to cityy, baaked)

- Swapped RG and Medkit. (resp. to cityy)

- Bigger doorways. (Inspired by Left Behind / Warehouse) (resp. to cityy)

- Removed the doorway from shards to GL; new tele spawn. (resp. to MexicanPadre, pikaluva13)

- Reduced water visibility with a more murky water texture,
along with water fog. (resp. to MexicanPadre, cityy)

- Increased the domination radii in bases by 32 units.

- Bot optimization.

Feedback:
- Bugs (check all supported gametypes)
- Item Placement
- Inconsistencies between bases (I copy and flip the bases and then make minor adjustments as needed if they're quick and easy enough, then I check both sides thoroughly. But it's still possible for something to slip up, so if you notice anything in one base that isn't reflected in the other, notify me.)
- Botplay

ETA:
- Location markers
- Visuals

Thank you for all of your suggestions, they have proven to be a great aid in making changes for the map. If all goes well I'll move to aesthetics next.

EDIT: When I go to change the thread title, it will change for the header of the post, but it won't show up in the forums, so it still says Alpha 1. I know it's been like this for a while... is there a feasible way to fix it?