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Thread: CRT screens best?

  1. #41
    Senior Member c3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
    Actually I meant that the motion blur with regular monitors hampers your reaction speed since you don't notice your enemies as quickly. A 5th of a second gain when moving fast isn't terribly unreasonable when you take that into account, since with strobed backlights you can see things clearly even when moving your mouse around really fast.

    And even if 200ms is a high-end, so is Lorfa's 20ms input lag. Can't think of any LCDs apart from LCD-TV screens with that much. Read my sentence as "Lightboost helps you 10 times as much as lower input lag" and you'll see what I was trying to get across.

    And no, Lightboost doesn't affect input lag one bit. By that logic all CRTs would have high input lag.
    To start, thx again for bringing up this whole 'lightboost 2d tweak.' I researched it quite a bit and have a good understanding of how it works now. I applied the tweak the other day and it did smooth things out a bit, but it wasn't so much that I wanted to switch to it, so I switched back.

    Couple things though...

    Being that lightboost uses 'strobing,' it does in fact add input latency on top of whatever your current input latency is (which is hard to find out anyways). Lightboost utilizes 1 or 2ms strobes for this too work. Likely, these numbers are understated as all 'input lag' and 'response time' claims tend to be, so I suspect it adds 2-7ms of input lag depending on your monitor and speed of your video card. I can say definitively after much research that 'strobing' does in fact raise your input lag. As you said prior, it may actually feel better because the motion blur has been eliminated.

    Also, I feel that many people confuse 'response time' w/ 'input lag.' They are not the same thing, and even the fastest Benq monitors have 5ms+ 'input lag.' The Benq xl2420t for example has 13ms input lag, and the Benq XL2410t has about 5.3ms of input lag. The XL2411t is brand new and there aren't enough viable sources stating its actual input lag.

    Most LCDS have 8-10ms input lag, so adding additional input lag is generally not something anyone would be too fond of.

    I will say this... the lightboost hack is definitely a personal preference kind of tweak...

  2. #42
    Senior Member julios is on a distinguished road
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    We have this new lcd display at my lab - cost a hefty penny (over 10k), but apparently it is a good CRT replacement. I work in vision science and for many of our experiments (including one that I'm about to start piloting), we need extremely precise timing of our images with no ghosting.

    http://www.vpixx.com/products/visual.../viewpixx.html

  3. #43
    Senior Member Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julios View Post
    We have this new lcd display at my lab - cost a hefty penny (over 10k), but apparently it is a good CRT replacement. I work in vision science and for many of our experiments (including one that I'm about to start piloting), we need extremely precise timing of our images with no ghosting.

    http://www.vpixx.com/products/visual.../viewpixx.html
    That's very cool! Wish we had exact stats on it.

    I've seen all sorts of ultra-high end professional type displays out there, some even using OLED.

    Wish someone would test them so that I could drool with accurate information.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Cat will become famous soon enough Cat will become famous soon enough Cat's Avatar
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    c3, not dismissing you out of hand, but I would like to see sources on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by julios View Post
    We have this new lcd display at my lab - cost a hefty penny (over 10k), but apparently it is a good CRT replacement. I work in vision science and for many of our experiments (including one that I'm about to start piloting), we need extremely precise timing of our images with no ghosting.

    http://www.vpixx.com/products/visual.../viewpixx.html
    Mouth-watering. Gonna be reading engineering physics and possibly working at MAX IV or some similar place. Hope I get to play with toys that cool.

    Too bad it's blue, though. >_>

  5. #45
    Senior Member insect is on a distinguished road insect's Avatar
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    That vpixx screen:
    - 1920 x 1200 at 120 Hz
    - 12-bit RGB intensity
    - Grey-to-Grey response time: 1ms typical in scanning backlight mode

    Almost a perfect LCD (22" is a bit too small).
    ...

  6. #46
    Senior Member c3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by julios View Post
    We have this new lcd display at my lab - cost a hefty penny (over 10k), but apparently it is a good CRT replacement. I work in vision science and for many of our experiments (including one that I'm about to start piloting), we need extremely precise timing of our images with no ghosting.

    http://www.vpixx.com/products/visual.../viewpixx.html
    Nice.

    Good to know such monitors exist and maybe we're not that far off from a legitimate CRT Replacement Monitor. When the Benq XL2411T becomes available in the states, I"m going to sell off my current Benq and Asus 120hz monitors and upgrade... from what I've researched, this one is getting pretty close.

    The monitor states that it has 1ms response time (GTG) and is supposed to have less input lag than the Benq XL2410T (around 5ms input lag), but I haven't been able to find any input lag tests conducted on this model yet... If anyone is aware of any input lag tests on the XL2411T, let me know!

  7. #47
    Senior Member c3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
    c3, not dismissing you out of hand, but I would like to see sources on that.
    http://marky.com/backlight/lightboost-zero-motion-blur/

    Above link briefly describes the lightboost technology and lightboost in 2d hack. Here's a quote discussing the 'strobing' lightboost requires.

    LightBoost is a programmable strobe backlight stays turned off while waiting for pixel persistence. The pixel transitions are kept in total darkness, and the backlight is strobed only after pixel transitions are finished. This bypasses pixel persistence as the motion blur barrier. The strobe lengths are only 1 milliseconds long on the BENQ, and 2 milliseconds long on the ASUS. The 1ms strobes eliminate of 94% motion blur (1ms out of 1/60sec) relative to a common 60Hz LCD, and eliminates 85% of motion blur (1ms out of 1/120sec) relative to 120Hz LCD’s.

    There are many sources explaining the same thing, so I suspect it's pretty accurate. Lightboost utilizes strobing with either 1ms or 2ms strobes used to eliminate motion blur. Yes, it adds an additional process, but it's negligible and probably not noticeable at all.

    Here's a thread that briefly discusses it as well:

    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039440728

  8. #48
    Member Or1on is on a distinguished road
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    I love low latency, but other features become more interesting when latency is relatively low. If one model has 5 milliseconds more input lag but better colors I'd definitely choose the more colorful monitor. The trade off would be very worth it to me. It's a delicate balance I suppose.

  9. #49
    Senior Member brainwreck is on a distinguished road brainwreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julios View Post
    i love me my crts. A few months ago, right as my samsung syncmaster 19 incher was dying, my neighbours threw out a 19 inch sony trinitron G400 in essentially brand new condition. What a treat to play at 1024x768 with 120hz (my prev monitor only supported 120hz @ 640 res so I'd played at 640 res for years).

    Then a few days ago, a good buddy switched to an LCD and handed me his 21 inch p1130 trinitron. thing does 170 hz in some modes - beast!

    Had to carry it about 50 metres and up and down some steep flights of stairs - not easy when it weighs about 70lb and is the better part of a metre in depth - totally worth it though
    Lol juls, prety sure u have the exact same crt as me now :]

  10. #50
    *Gentoo64
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    I used a 60hz LCD after I got rid of a CRT years ago and never really took much notice, I remembered when I first got the LCD thinking the picture looked washed out and terrible. I was pretty lucky to find someone selling a Compaq P1220 living up the road from me for 10 pretty much brand new mint condition I was excited to try it out as I hadn't used a CRT in so long and was blown away when it came to games / videos / photos.

    The color on a CRT is absolutely unbeatable, the guy I bought it off is a photographer and really serious about IQ and said the top of the range IPS he bought couldn't touch the CRT for color range / quality.
    IMO though as good as CRT's are (160hz on my one is so smooth, and no input lag, amazing looking on games and movies, unlimited colors), they do have drawbacks- they aren't as nice for scrolling round your desktop or viewing web pages, they're nowhere near as easy on your eyes and because of the decent contrast it seems too much for casual use.
    As for games they have one huge drawback and that's sharpness. CRT's still have a native res (my max is 2048x1536 but the default native is 1600x1200) but it's still nowhere near as sharp as an LCD which could be a disadvantage for eg long range precision pixel sniping.
    They are also weighty, draw lots of power and need a certain amount of time to calibrate properly, especially if you switch resolutions a lot.

    On paper they probably are the most optimal monitor for gaming but in reality I can't see people having much of an advantage at all over modern flat monitors, but compared to old LCD's I would say they give a big advantage.

    At the end of the day it just depends how good you are at a certain game, regardless of hardware. I love tinkering with things and owning quality hardware, I play CRT 800x600 160hz, Das Keyboard cherry browns, G400 1000hz no prediction 400dpi, very minimal Linux with custom kernel ck-1000hz with sysctl and kernel tweaks for lowest input lag and max responsiveness, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, QL config with max picmip for best visibility, completely no accel raw input and all the tweaks I can think of. Games run and play like nothing I've ever experienced anywhere else, but I still suck compared to most people probably using default config, cheapo key and mouse, no sound.

    I just like not having anything but myself to blame.
    Last edited by Gentoo64; 01-26-2013 at 06:49 PM.

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