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    Junior Member copydaaigoedou is on a distinguished road
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    CRT screens best?

    Hi there

    I have been playing ql for about 5 months and have improved a significant amount.
    But, I seem to be getting to a stage where I am not improving really. I then heard some shocking news from a friend, that all pros play with CRT screens. Did a bit of research, asked some of the top players, and they all said yes it is true. Apparently CRT screens improve your aim and dodging a lot! Does this mean I have to get crt to become pro? Does this mean I am always at a disadvantage with my LED? Some shots just seem too good by me to miss, and there is sometimes fishyness going on(I know about hitbox delay but something else). Can you confirm this once and for all? Also? What exactly is the reason that CRT screens are better?(the scientific reason please)

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Member Grandbolus is on a distinguished road
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    They have a lot less input lag than non 120hz led's.

    So apparently you need crt or 120hz refresh rate led for that next level.

    However, you could probably do with some years of practice and perhaps other hardware upgrades too (mouse, pad, headphones).

    ps. i dont have a fast monitor myself.
    Last edited by Grandbolus; 01-19-2013 at 02:31 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copydaaigoedou View Post
    I have been playing ql for about 5 months and have improved a significant amount. But, I seem to be getting to a stage where I am not improving really.
    Plenty of reasons why this can happen. It isn't necessarily hardware related. Without more information we cannot help you though.

    I then heard some shocking news from a friend, that all pros play with CRT screens.
    I don't think this is true. Most of the pros have switched to using 120 Hz LCDs, although most strongly approve of CRT use.

    Did a bit of research, asked some of the top players, and they all said yes it is true.
    Such as? Since they regular lans that rarely feature CRTs, it is in their best interest to practice on LCDs. The latest 120 Hz models aren't too bad.

    Apparently CRT screens improve your aim and dodging a lot!
    This is a stretch. Like any improvement in hardware it may make some things easier, but it will not improve aim/dodging outright.

    Does this mean I have to get crt to become pro?
    No, it does not.

    Does this mean I am always at a disadvantage with my LED?
    Not necessarily. The biggest problem with LCDs is "input lag". Sometimes called "output lag" or "input latency". This is the time it takes for events to be shown on the screen.

    The worst case scenario for LCDs would be one with an average latency of like 60 ms and fluctuate wildly between 30 and 80 depending on what's being shown. This is bound to produce a dreadful game experience.

    Luckily most LCDs are not this bad. The really good 120 Hz LCDs can have less than 10 ms latency, or even 1-3 ms. That's almost as good as CRT. A CRT has an input lag of about 400 microseconds, or 0.4 ms.

    Note that input latency is something quite different from response time, which is how quickly the pixels themselves can change. With a high response time you would get "ghosting", that is after images shown during motion. This problem has pretty much been solved as modern panels have very low response times.

    Sites such as prad.de do input latency measurements on some displays and they know how to do it correctly. Unfortunately measuring input latency is a rather involved, expensive, and tricky process to do correctly. Few sites put in the necessary effort, so you have to take their data with a grain of salt, or at least try to find multiple sources to compare them.

    Some shots just seem too good by me to miss, and there is sometimes fishyness going on(I know about hitbox delay but something else).
    What display do you have? There is a chance its input latency has been tested and is on the net somewhere.

    Can you confirm this once and for all?
    CRTs are a sure fire way to be certain of little or no input lag. However the latest LCD panels are at least close in terms of input lag, and bring with them benefits in space, power usage, resolution, and clarity.

    That being said I still do not regard LCDs as superior to CRTs, but maybe they are about just as good as each other depending on what you use them for. I am still eagerly awaiting a new technology (OLED?) that will surpass both LCDS/CRTs and put an end to this very annoying issue of working with trade offs.

    Also? What exactly is the reason that CRT screens are better?(the scientific reason please)
    I am not sure, but there's a fantastic article on prad.de that might have this info. It's been a while since I've read it. Find it here:

    http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/speci...l#Introduction

  4. #4
    Senior Member drunkenFooL is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorfa View Post
    I am still eagerly awaiting a new technology (OLED?) that will surpass both LCDS/CRTs and put an end to this very annoying issue of working with trade offs.

    ]
    For those curious, OLED = Organic Light-Emitting Diode.
    Quite the buzz at CES 2013 in Las Vegas.
    I believe OLED has 4x the resolution of 1080p HD - hence the 4k marketing in the literature and seminars.

    LG's 55inch comes out in USA in March 2013 at $12,000.00 list price. (not a typo)

    Maybe we could all chip in and buy one. :-)

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/tech/g...ces/index.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsF-jNPWvI4

  5. #5
    Senior Member eduguy is an unknown quantity at this point
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    CRTs are very power hungry.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Cat will become famous soon enough Cat will become famous soon enough Cat's Avatar
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    Since the 3DVision Lightboost trick was discovered, CRTs have become redundant.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
    Since the 3DVision Lightboost trick was discovered, CRTs have become redundant.
    Except that has nothing to do with input latency.

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    Senior Member Cat will become famous soon enough Cat will become famous soon enough Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorfa View Post
    Except that has nothing to do with input latency.
    Input latency doesn't really matter when you have 0 motion blur, and even if it did the BenQ has less than 1ms of it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa is a jewel in the rough Lorfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat View Post
    Input latency doesn't really matter when you have 0 motion blur,
    Of course it does! If you had 20 ms input latency and a 50 ms ping, it would be like playing with 70 ms.

    and even if it did the BenQ has less than 1ms of it.
    Well like I said, there ARE good ones out there. They are usually expensive for 120 Hz and low input latency.

    Whereas most likely there are no CRTs with >1 ms latency, and almost all can manage 120 Hz+ albeit at lower resolutions.

  10. #10
    Junior Member pistolp4 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorfa View Post
    Whereas most likely there are no CRTs with >1 ms latency, and almost all can manage 120 Hz+ albeit at lower resolutions.
    I have never known a single serious quake player who plays at 1080p or other high reso.

    Also Retribution, I don't know where the hell you are looking because I have never seen a crt touch an lcd in price.

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