Why don't we just play Quake 3?

[jayP]

People who disagree mostly never played vq3 or OSP.

I'm one of those who use to play OSP daily back in the day, I use to run an OSP CTF server for one of my clans as well. I remember those days fondly mostly because of the plentiful games and huge player base. That said Q3 vanilla was always an unfinished product that was made really amazing by the mod developers. If it wasn't for the OSP and CPMA guys, Q3 would just be a big messy ffa based game with a few other gametypes tacked on for show. The competitive mods are what made the game special.

I think QL has taken most of those great competitive innovations and packaged it all up into a nice convenient package that doesn't require you to go hunting down patches, point releases or maps all the time just to play. Yeah QL limits the maps you can use, but I also remember how rigid players where about playing new maps. There where a million custom maps but nobody ever wanted to play but a fraction of them (much to my frustration).

As someone that has played Q3A for years as well as QL since beta, I can honestly say given the choice I'd take QL over Q3A any day. It takes the great parts of Q3 and just organizes it better into a more polished product. Yeah it's not perfect, I'd like to have more maps to play but over all QL feels better than Q3, and is just more convenient to play. I'll occasionally go back to Q3A just to see how the game is and I'm always disappointing by it. The few servers I see playing the same old maps, 12 vs 12 spacectf ect, ect...

[megaman3]

No we don't. Infact, I've gone out of my way to help them in the past with issues.

Their staff posted that about 2 weeks ago on esr, and it's not the first time he says so.

#17: GTV is overrated. Agreed with the rest.

[Biz_]

because Q3A isn't a game anymore. it's just an engine and every random nobody's server is running some different version/mod/mode and it's too hard to just learn it and play it or even find a match if you know exactly what you want to play

that's why it died

[sponge]

Their staff posted that about 2 weeks ago on esr, and it's not the first time he says so.

I'm not sure what issues they may be having with their infrastructure but we are not blocking anything of the sort, and they've never attempted to contact me about it.

[Lorfa]

People who disagree mostly never played vq3 or OSP.

This is a really big assumption on your part, and I think you'll find that it is much more controversial than you realize.

Besides this is tantamount to saying "if you disagree with me you just don't know no better".

What makes me think that Q3 > QL?

1. The actual gameplay. Vq3 just feels better

I understand this opinion and I have some sympathy for it. At the very least though I'd say it is controversial. The sv_fps 40 that is standard in QL is a nice plus.

and more user friendly.

This I find to be just incorrect. One of QL's biggest selling points is its user friendliness. Everything is in one spot.

You jump around during warmup, you see all the spawn points, which makes new maps easier to learn,

Yes this was a nice feature. You can still do this with QL maps in wolfcam (cvarlist *spawn). Also memento_mori provides a nice interactive spawn visualization for duel maps here: http://esreality.com/?a=post&id=2219012

you got well arranged menu/stats tab,

I'm rather confused by this one. How is the QL menu/stats tab not "well arranged"?

small things like #i #L etc for tdm binds

#h #a #w are supported for premium members. I agree that this could be greatly improved. I suppose with the predominance of voice apps these days there hasn't been as much of a pull for text based team communication options.

r_nomip...

The cvar is cg_nomip.

It was decided by Sync that it provides an unfair advantage to players who use it vs. those who don't and so he removed it / desynchronized the effect of picmip on rockets.

Whether this is a good thing is a subject of some controversy, but I thought I should let you know the reasoning behind it.

2. Gtv. I was grateful for ESL (after all, Joe & 2GD can hardly be bested), Zotac, Im happy to have faceit. But just the fact that you are free to grab the GTV camera to any major/minor event you want is essential for a game like QL. You can stream your games alright, but quake isnt exactly Starcraft 2 where you have plenty of time to make comments during the actual match. If we had an improved version of GTV (lets say with a voice synchro), cups like 125fps and daily faceit would become much more popular and could possibly encourage others.

Yes I'll give you that one. GTV has been something greatly requested for a long time.

There is some consolation in the streams, for example ql ranks has their own stream running all the time of high rated players.

3. Multipov and demo playback. In q3, you launch a demo (from your demo list, no need to start a practice match) and you are free to switch between povs as you like + you actually see where the other player is in a small window on the screen, worked the same way when you were spectating. I really dont know why this hasnt been added to QL yet, as I think demos are an important part of quake games. Casters complain about this one every now and then, rightfully so.

This is called an MVD (Multi-view Demo). It was not available in q3, but q3 cpma. It requires server side recording of matches and storage, which increases the CPU/diskspace requirements of the server and this is perhaps the reason why they haven't been implemented.

I would love to see MVDs in QL. Using wolfcam's "follow" option is a rather limited alternative as it allows you to see the other player's pov only when in range, and their health information is not available. I find it is better than nothing however.

4. Freedom, mods. Restricted to be able to vote only during warmups, restricted using of custom maps, restricted server configs / mods. Not to mention theres only a single server provider (i3d) - youre having problems? Well, you might as well quit. Wanna play defrag? Oh well, that sucks.

It is a lot more restricted, as having a browser based game and subscription service means they have to have strict control over the content. This is a drawback, but at the same time it keeps the community more unified which I think is a good thing.

You don't have players spread out over a bunch of super weird game mods and you don't have to worry about the complications of a particular game mod becoming popular and going through a ton of versions.

So, thats a few points coming to my mind. I like QL, I enjoy playing it, but I have problems understanding why QL is a downgrade instead of an upgrade,

I wouldn't call it a downgrade. I'd say it is simply different, neutral even. However, the vote swings in QL's direction greatly by the popularity.

why theres no ladder,

There have been many ladders throughout the years! It may have died down now but that doesn't mean it's gone for good.

chatrooms (moderated general, for prem/pro users their own, possibly p/w protected),

Is it really necessary to keep out standard users? Including a chat room has been suggested many times. QL Prism includes one, but of course this isn't an Id development. There is a channel, #quakelive on quakenet, but it is for everyone. It is fairly moderated.

There is a "subscriber's only" section of the forum as I'm sure you know.

mods, autogenerated daily cups you can attend just by clicking in browser menu

Ok, q3 definitely did not have this. It's an interesting idea though.

[namad]

everything else was for free.

What exactly did you get for free? If it was free for you it means that someone has paid for it. Servers are free? Community forums are free?

[ToiletHumor]

I miss q3. I actually prefer the netcode of q3 over ql as well as the physics. The biggest thing I miss is 3wave ctfs (attack and defend doesn't feel the same). That said, this is the next best thing and I'd take this over Call of duty or Battlefield any day and despite my drunken bashings of the past, I do appreciate the devs maintaining q3 in the form of quakelive.

What I don't like is signing up for a year plan and idsoftworks or whatever downgrading servers. Currently, it seems like I lock up before I await gamestate and my ping is now higher. I hope this is temporary. The whole map changes with the voting thing was another negative, but business is business. Fact is a lot less people are playing now. Hopefully, I don't get banned for whatever reason in the future and things get better, but I prefer Q3.

[Earthsea]

I dunno, I started Quake with QL. I just downloaded CPMA though, but since there are 0 pubs I probably won't be playing that for long. :x

[Hesse]

I also do not feel QL is worse than Q3A. It's very good game, I know that people might not care about my opinion, I'm not a nerd, but I will tell you something, give an example, I'm barely on forum, but people who watch it might care.

When I first played Crysis I finished it and I never played that again, I don't miss it. At all. I don't remeber a thing. It was like, I runned that only to see graphics, kill few people and then(maybe there was QL, but I didn't know anything about that) run Q3A. Because it was just much better, I realised I don't need graphics, I wasn't feeling any game like Quake series. After I discovered QL I wasn't playing Q3A, less comfortable(as someone on 1 page said, on QL ID does all the things for you) QL needs maybe few graphics improvements(because I think market needs it, I don't need it at all) and maybe to run faster I don't know, is there anything else? I even seen a guy who played quake with high res textures on YT, if that is possible it's awesome game. I'm ignorant when it comes to configs so I may be wrong but QL has ENOUGH configurations to me.

Now I have new PC, but first thing I want to play on it is QL. Can you do any better? Till now I was playing it on very lousy netbook 10.1', uncomfortable but I was doing it very often. Can you do any better? ;D

[Jaylez]

In my OP I wasn't trying to say "GAH QUAKE LIVE SUCKS FASHGOOPA LETS GO TO QUAKE 3!!@#!@!!@!@#%!%!%!ONEONEOMNE!!!!!1!11!11!"

I just noticed how a bunch of people thought that Q3 was better and I was wondering why they don't play it then. I'm sorry for any misinterpretation. I'm making this post because I have received some negative reputation. I don't know if it means/does anything but I just wanted to let everybody know I was not trying to take a side and bash the other. I was merely trying to make discussion. Sorry.