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Thread: QLPP14 Site Update - October 23, 2012

  1. #21
    Junior Member dSaster is on a distinguished road
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    Not a good update, since maps are sorted out for non premium players!
    Think about better options for premium and pro content.

    I repeat my decission to go premium was the pre game advertice - nothin else.
    To go pro would be to be able to start own servers.
    There is surely more to get good arguments for premium and pro BUT NOT THE MAPS!!!

    People!!! The Servers are emtpy! What are you doin?

  2. #22
    Member ecsplos1v is on a distinguished road
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    Hello thanks for the great updates!

    I would like to request an update which I think will be a big incentive for ppl to buy premium -- having an improved player stats page.

    The number one issue is that you take averages over a very long time horizon (or very short i.e. 10 games). I would like to see moving averages with a configurable time horizon. This would show how players have improved over time and whether they are currently on form etc.

    Also your accuracy metric is flawed. For example two people with 55% rail accuracy could be wildly different in killing ability. What I mean is that it's possible to increase your accuracy by only taking less riskier shots. There should be a normalized metric called "effectiveness" which takes into consideration every realized possibility taken to kill an enemy. Also I'm not sure if your current accuracy metric is normalized to take the fire rate of weapons into consideration, it should be done on time spent firing not shots fired. Another metric related to this I would call "hesitance" or "reflexes"

    Anyway the concept here is that people spend a lot of time playing quakeL and competition of stats and building an identity through their stats is of huge value, averaging over long periods does not incentivise people to play hard now and keep playing because they feel it doesn't "count".

    Edit--

    Another key flaw with you accuracy stats is they actually depend on the skill rating of your opponent i.e. they are less a metric of mouse aim and more an effective metric of your enemies dodging capability. The stats have to be normalized against the average skill rating of the server played on or simply broken down by enemy tier at least (yes I know you can't play tier below you but maybe for historical stats and in case you move up and down). There are lots of abuse holes here. People set a handicap and attain super high accuracy in T3 servers, or high T4s like to play low T4s etc. Further considerations are that duels are a better indication of true accuracy because you are always dodging your opponent. Larger games mean you may be boosting someone's accuracy by not dodging them.

    Rocket jumps should not be counted as misses on accuracy. I play CA mainly and use the RL about 52% of the time. I rocket jump a lot and this significantly reduces my overall accuracy rating.

    Per session average stats. For example how consistent are players, how long does it take them to warm up? Do start warmed up? How often to they practice against bots or unranked servers? What does their typical gaming session look like? Do they quit when they are starting to loose? People tend to play q3 for contiguous blocks of time because it takes a while to tune in i.e. to get the payback. These blocks of time should be analysed in their own respect.

    What time of the day to people play, how does time of day or day of week or other factors effect their stats.

    How do wep preferences or indeed all stats change from map to map.

    Generate a network of inferred friends. Which players does this player spend most time in servers with, do they play better with certain people. Do they try to impress certain people? For example I find that I get nervous when I play certain people, perhaps I could show that my hesitance increased as a tipping point when I play a much higher skill.

    Can you somehow design a metric to show how nervous a player is.

    People are interested in comparing themselves to others and would feel a sense of identity if he could for example say he was more consistent than a T4 player, i.e. find a small stat that makes them look good when so many others are better on average over a long time.

    I know you think this is too crazy but it could be a fascinating insight and help you analyse how the game works more yourselves
    Last edited by ecsplos1v; 09-12-2013 at 09:11 AM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Flanger is on a distinguished road Flanger's Avatar
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    DEVs one question please. Why can referee be callvote kicked? I let people vote in my server, but ops/refrees are still possible to be kicked by regular players...

  4. #24
    Senior Member Phlogiston will become famous soon enough Phlogiston will become famous soon enough Phlogiston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecsplos1v View Post
    Also your accuracy metric is flawed. For example two people with 55% rail accuracy could be wildly different in killing ability. What I mean is that it's possible to increase your accuracy by only taking less riskier shots. There should be a normalized metric called "efficiency" which takes into consideration every realized possibility taken to kill an enemy. Also I'm not sure if your current accuracy metric is normalized to take the fire rate of weapons into consideration, it should be done on time spent firing not shots fired.
    This is one of several reasons why you can't rely on accuracy to determine how good a player is - another would be that you have to remember that your opponent's dodging will affect their aim - fighting newbies I can manage LG in the high 30's to 40's, fighting people of my own level it drops by nearly 10%.

    Things like this are why the accuracy leaderboard was dropped from the website, since you had people slumming against easier targets, or playing very boring styles of gameplay where they just camped a jump-pad with rail and/or LG for 20mins (seen it happen myself), all for the sake of stats.

    IMO stats are useful for a player to see how they're developing personally (which is why I'd love to see your moving averages), but trying to compete on stats or use them to gauge another player is a bit pointless

  5. #25
    Junior Member FLI is on a distinguished road
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    zombies, zombies everywhere...

  6. #26
    Member ecsplos1v is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogiston View Post
    IMO stats are useful for a player to see how they're developing personally (which is why I'd love to see your moving averages), but trying to compete on stats or use them to gauge another player is a bit pointless
    Hi mate -- I updated my post before I saw your reply and did comment about the dependency on the other players dodging.

    I disagree about competing on stats. The whole fun part is competing and identity through stats. The stats just need to be well designed and normalized in some sense to make it possible.

    A lame example is how Nike normalized their FuelBand steps/calories into a "Nike Fuel" metric to make it directly comparable to all other users, then you can compete with your friends. Steps wouldn't be comparable because fat people expend more effort walking X steps.

    The stats could be simple little things like if you have a steady hand, flick rail accuracy, accuracy against pressure. These little things are what the badges should have been, fun ways to identify with the game that are tangible.

    Of course the hard bit is capturing/estimating these concepts. With some heuristics it would be possible.

    Also why are there not per game type stats like your style of play, whether you are selfish, style of play like attacking/defending, situational analysis i.e. how reckless you are. Yes it's hard to estimate this stuff but far from impossible. Some simple machine learning algorithms could be used for this -- even simple nearest neighbour using some shortest map path metric from all opponents and some evaluation function based on their stacks and stats (some simple O(n^2) algorithms running at key snapshots in games which then get averaged)

    Please do it Id sofware it would be sick and make it fun for everyone, it's all about the competition -- create lots of little stat competitions
    Last edited by ecsplos1v; 10-23-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  7. #27
    Member CANADIAN is on a distinguished road CANADIAN's Avatar
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    Kudos....This is the second bestist update eva imao and the update addresses the major aches and pains for the freeze tag community. ie. the Spawns and the starting weapon. Makes us all happy campers with them warm and fuzzies. Thank you for listening and more importantly - implementing the fixes. Any further tweaks will just be icing on them cakes!!!

  8. #28
    Producer SyncError will become famous soon enough SyncError will become famous soon enough SyncError's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CANADIAN View Post
    Kudos....This is the second bestist update eva imao and the update addresses the major aches and pains for the freeze tag community. ie. the Spawns and the starting weapon. Makes us all happy campers with them warm and fuzzies. Thank you for listening and more importantly - implementing the fixes. Any further tweaks will just be icing on them cakes!!!
    \o/ Enjoy!

  9. #29
    Senior Member megaman3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecsplos1v View Post
    Hi mate -- I updated my post before I saw your reply and did comment about the dependency on the other players dodging.

    I disagree about competing on stats. The whole fun part is competing and identity through stats. The stats just need to be well designed and normalized in some sense to make it possible.

    A lame example is how Nike normalized their FuelBand steps/calories into a "Nike Fuel" metric to make it directly comparable to all other users, then you can compete with your friends. Steps wouldn't be comparable because fat people expend more effort walking X steps.

    The stats could be simple little things like if you have a steady hand, flick rail accuracy, accuracy against pressure. These little things are what the badges should have been, fun ways to identify with the game that are tangible.

    Of course the hard bit is capturing/estimating these concepts. With some heuristics it would be possible.

    Also why are there not per game type stats like your style of play, whether you are selfish, style of play like attacking/defending, situational analysis i.e. how reckless you are. Yes it's hard to estimate this stuff but far from impossible. Some simple machine learning algorithms could be used for this -- even simple nearest neighbour using some shortest map path metric from all opponents (some simple O(n^2) algorithms running at key snapshots in games which then get averaged)

    Please do it Id sofware it would be sick and make it fun for everyone, it's all about the competition -- create lots of little stat competitions
    As he said, stats competitions generate toxic games and behaviors and this comes from the experience we all players had at the beginning of QL.

    What I think it could be improved though is saving all the data shown in the premium scoreboard that's wasted afterwards, as it doesn't appear on the lifetime statistics. Also some new in-game awards and saved stats would be nice, for example air rockets and air grenades (it was on ra3).

  10. #30
    Junior Member Mastermind is on a distinguished road
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    I am on every Infected-server. :=OO

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