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Thread: tier drop

  1. #11
    *sml411
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0laris View Post
    Applying handicap to downtiering players sounds reasonable and doable, but this game is about a lot more than just damage and HP. I have an alt account, playing with handicap 80-90 in T3 CA, just to be with friends and fool around. If i take it seriously, i can easily rack up on kills and im not some pro player. A goldbar CA pro can go back to T3 and massacre a server, because that player knows how to avoid unnecessary damage and just rail-rail-rail-rail... also, rockets, nades and plasma can still do good enough damage.
    The worlds best player with 100% accuracy cannot do much with 2% firepower, damage at 10x and restricted movement speed. The point is you can make it till the T4 is the worst player on the server. 80-90 handicap sure but change it to 3 handicap and see how you do. Do you understand?

  2. #12
    Senior Member malk_ will become famous soon enough malk_ will become famous soon enough malk_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sml411 View Post
    The worlds best player with 100% accuracy cannot do much with 2% firepower, damage at 10x and restricted movement speed. The point is you can make it till the T4 is the worst player on the server. 80-90 handicap sure but change it to 3 handicap and see how you do. Do you understand?
    His point was:
    because that player knows how to avoid unnecessary damage
    With 2% firepower it will just take longer to win, but a T4 player with proper dodging will live for ages in a T3 game just because people fail to hit him.
    "I worked hard to learn to aim where I shouldn't be aiming, I want others to get through this pain too!"
    o . o . o . o

  3. #13
    *sml411
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    Quote Originally Posted by malk_ View Post
    His point was:


    With 2% firepower it will just take longer to win, but a T4 player with proper dodging will live for ages in a T3 game just because people fail to hit him.
    I understood what he was saying and I'll repeat it again to you. I thought my example was sufficient but apparently it was not. So let's really take it to the absurd just so you get the point.
    T4 player handicapped so to join T3 server:
    1. handicapped fire power to .0000000001 %
    2. handicapped damage where 1 MG bullet, 1 pellet from SG, or "ANY" damage is fatal
    3. handicapped movement where max movement speed is restricted to silent walking.

    I'll give this restricted T4 player a lifespan of 30 seconds tops in a full server. I made it absolutely ridiculous so you get the point.

    Do you understand now?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Yakumo has a spectacular aura about Yakumo has a spectacular aura about Yakumo's Avatar
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    Handicaps below about 65 are actually unfair on anyone. But at 65 poor players still just get annoyed as a handicapped good player just runs rings round them and shoots them alot more preventing them from moving.

  5. #15
    Banned AutoMatiK is an unknown quantity at this point
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    just do what everyone else does to circumveen this, start another account. works for most of the tier slumming 4's that come down to 3 for a giggle.

  6. #16
    Senior Member malk_ will become famous soon enough malk_ will become famous soon enough malk_'s Avatar
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    Missed the part where you proposed a new handicap system. That might work to even out skill gaps, but won't solve the 'I want to play with my T3 friends' part of the problem. One could argue you're not playing a competitive game anymore when you're handicapped so much you don't have even a slightest chance to win. I think it's nearly impossible to find a good compromise for that so fully restricted tiers are the way to go.
    "I worked hard to learn to aim where I shouldn't be aiming, I want others to get through this pain too!"
    o . o . o . o

  7. #17
    Banned BIMNUTZ is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Quote Originally Posted by malk_ View Post
    Missed the part where you proposed a new handicap system. That might work to even out skill gaps, but won't solve the 'I want to play with my T3 friends' part of the problem. One could argue you're not playing a competitive game anymore when you're handicapped so much you don't have even a slightest chance to win. I think it's nearly impossible to find a good compromise for that so fully restricted tiers are the way to go.
    Sry dude, don't buy that for a second! Graduated handicaping would b fine. There's a way 2 even the skill cap with server adjusted health spawn and weapons damage. Better idea would b 2 bring the T3 skill ceiling a bit higher 2 add all us lag/latency lizards to T3. If the skill rating system can calculate were we should b in the skill tier system, it can calculate how much health and weapons damage 2 handicap players.

  8. #18
    Senior Member CeeLoGreen is on a distinguished road
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    Could even be predetermined on each individual player...

    If player A, has a 98 skill rate, it could allow me to do full dmg.
    If player B, has a 70 skill rate, it could allow me to hit for 65 percent damage.

    Before the game starts, it COULD calculate each players skill rating, and auto adjust my damage done to each target when the weapon crosses that players hitbox.

    I created an alt, and joined some T3 players just to watch a friend play. I couldnt help but notice the abundance of servers running for them. I logged back into this acct, and not a single CTF match was going. Sometimes I see them, but its always space camp map 1,2, or 3.

    A scaling damage system should be implemented into the game I believe for sure. It would close alot of issues. Slumming, lack of servers, unbalanced teams ect.... Cake and eat it too..

    Before you tell me to make an unrestricted server. Why dont you buy pro and spawn a non scaling server, and let the entire QL community play together as a whole?
    All I know is, I aint played a decent mapped ctf game in eons it seems, and its always the same 20 ish people I play CA with. Death match is out of the question, Have played 1, or 2 games of freeze since it was released, because It has to be planed in advance and announced on the forums when a game is going to be played. The newest game types, I have to play in Europe, If there is even one happening. There are 0 being played for the most part in the states.

    Something needs to be addressed. Im a bit bored honestly.
    Last edited by CeeLoGreen; 06-06-2012 at 09:04 PM.

  9. #19
    Junior Member Havikk is on a distinguished road
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    whats the skillrating to drop down in t3? I think its 70 right? I'm waiting the whole day to get back in t3 but the skill always stays at 70 .. I've made a game with 0 frags the very first time in a mode except duel haha .. not because I wanted to .. I got no chance against these guys, but its still at 70 ... maybe it didn't dropped down because of the one flagrun I made?

  10. #20
    Junior Member sabrina1992 is on a distinguished road
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    The tier system can be remedied to a large extent. I propose the following.

    1. Increase the skillrating range for each tier on a trial and error basis, e.g., updates to the skillrating range can be applied based on user feedback through this forum. As of now, progression through the tiers is too quick. I am also interested to know how the internals of the skillrating system work. Since I am not familiar with it, I cannot make strong statements yet. However, I am sure this system can be improved greatly if it works how I think it does (some slight variation of ELO).

    2. Allow a new user to pick his starting tier. This allows pros on alt accounts to immediately start playing at the appropriate tier level instead of upsetting lower tiered players. If the user happened to be a bit enthusiastic in judging his skill, the current skillrating system will downgrade them quickly enough. Those that want to tierslum still can, sadly, but at least it will now be limited to those who really *want* to tier slum. Currently it's those who want to tier slum plus people making alt accounts and want to play at tier 4 but must first level up.

    As an alternative to (1), you could just have more tiers. However, I don't like this idea: as you introduce more tiers you hide more servers from users. In fact, even the current setup seems suboptimal to me. Why are we hiding any servers and thus making quake look less active than it actually is? Here's a more complex but possibly nicer system:

    Continue hiding lower tiered servers where games are already in progress but expose the ones that have players and are currently in warmup. If a high tier player tries to join this server, then the server should call a vote as to whether or not this player should be allowed in. Perhaps another method is to have the server call a vote to ask if players are OK making this server unrestricted; however, I think that is too much.

    P.S. A forced handicap is a bad idea because it will seriously upset those whom it is forced upon. People don't like things being forced on them in general. Please consider a different approach.

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