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Thread: tier drop

  1. #21
    *sml411
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrina1992 View Post
    1. Increase the skillrating range for each tier on a trial and error basis, e.g., updates to the skillrating range can be applied based on user feedback through this forum. As of now, progression through the tiers is too quick. I am also interested to know how the internals of the skillrating system work. Since I am not familiar with it, I cannot make strong statements yet. However, I am sure this system can be improved greatly if it works how I think it does (some slight variation of ELO).
    I believe the range is dynamic and changes with player base.

    Quote Originally Posted by sabrina1992 View Post
    2. Allow a new user to pick his starting tier. This allows pros on alt accounts to immediately start playing at the appropriate tier level instead of upsetting lower tiered players. If the user happened to be a bit enthusiastic in judging his skill, the current skillrating system will downgrade them quickly enough. Those that want to tierslum still can, sadly, but at least it will now be limited to those who really *want* to tier slum. Currently it's those who want to tier slum plus people making alt accounts and want to play at tier 4 but must first level up.

    As an alternative to (1), you could just have more tiers. However, I don't like this idea: as you introduce more tiers you hide more servers from users. In fact, even the current setup seems suboptimal to me. Why are we hiding any servers and thus making quake look less active than it actually is? Here's a more complex but possibly nicer system:

    Continue hiding lower tiered servers where games are already in progress but expose the ones that have players and are currently in warmup. If a high tier player tries to join this server, then the server should call a vote as to whether or not this player should be allowed in. Perhaps another method is to have the server call a vote to ask if players are OK making this server unrestricted; however, I think that is too much.

    P.S. A forced handicap is a bad idea because it will seriously upset those whom it is forced upon. People don't like things being forced on them in general. Please consider a different approach.

    Imho: bad idea. We cannot have slumming. Just tune up the skill rating system to propel alt accounts and slummers quickly into correct tiers.
    P.s. There is no "force". The player choses to play in the lower tier with a handicap or doesnt play. And no any voting is a bad idea anywhere and any time.

  2. #22
    Member gencor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by sml411 View Post
    To OP: You are supposed to play with like skilled people. If that doesn't seem fair then think about you and your buddies enjoying an awesome game then 2 Terminators from Tier 11 come down and smash the living bejesus out of you and your friends. Wouldn't be so fun any more. Hence the Tier restricted system.
    Do you really think that that doesn't happen with the current system? sorry to disappoint but it does... frequently
    May the lag be with you...

  3. #23
    Member gencor is on a distinguished road
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    I really wish that a forced handicap system would be put in place. If a player doesn't want a handicap forced on them then they can play in their tier instead. Being blocked from playing with friends and having less servers to choose from is just silly. I don't think movement speed, reload speed, etc.. should be affected though. If a skilled player is harder to hit but delivers less damage then so be it. That would allow lower skilled players a chance to practice their aim without being slaughtered and higher skilled players a chance to practice avoiding being hit for a longer period of time. I don't see a downside. I do however see many negatives to showing less servers and game types available to play on and blocking people from playing on servers that they want to join.

    BTW, the tier system is also far from perfect, which adds to the issue. I tend to jump back and forth between tiers. I tend to do well in the lower tier but usually get slaughtered in the higher tier. Getting slaughtered is ok if I'm in the zone and in the mood for a challenge but sometimes it's just annoying. For example, I might take a break for a few weeks then come back for a few rounds for fun. I'll likely be out of practice due to a lack of playing but will get thrown back in where I left off. This can sometimes take a very long time for the system to finally adjust and give in to let me join a lower tiered match where I might have a chance... much less be able to join a match with friends...
    Last edited by gencor; 06-17-2012 at 06:59 PM.
    May the lag be with you...

  4. #24
    Senior Member xdc is on a distinguished road xdc's Avatar
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    i always play with /handicap 99
    'the 99 percent'
    'occupy quakelive'
    '99 problems but a percent aint 1'
    http://www.quakelive.com/#!clans/summary/204531

    198 hp(CA), 79 rail, 99 rox/nade, 109 sg, etc
    makes a difference in 1v1

    /handicap 50 games are fun(when everyone does it)
    health counts down from 200 to 100, and do half dmg.
    it allows for better +forward, and less +back

    sometimes Ill /handicap 10 when its like 6 - 0

    going down a tier and /handicaping sounds fun but how fair is it?
    I still tend to get highest score with /handicap 75, the handicap doesnt make a difference
    if my accuracy is 20% higher
    Last edited by xdc; 06-17-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  5. #25
    *sml411
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    Quote Originally Posted by gencor View Post
    I really wish that a forced handicap system would be put in place. If a player doesn't want a handicap forced on them then they can play in their tier instead. Being blocked from playing with friends and having less servers to choose from is just silly. I don't think movement speed, reload speed, etc.. should be affected though. If a skilled player is harder to hit but delivers less damage then so be it. That would allow lower skilled players a chance to practice their aim without being slaughtered and higher skilled players a chance to practice avoiding being hit for a longer period of time. I don't see a downside. I do however see many negatives to showing less servers and game types available to play on and blocking people from playing on servers that they want to join.

    BTW, the tier system is also far from perfect, which adds to the issue. I tend to jump back and forth between tiers. I tend to do well in the lower tier but usually get slaughtered in the higher tier. Getting slaughtered is ok if I'm in the zone and in the mood for a challenge but sometimes it's just annoying. For example, I might take a break for a few weeks then come back for a few rounds for fun. I'll likely be out of practice due to a lack of playing but will get thrown back in where I left off. This can sometimes take a very long time for the system to finally adjust and give in to let me join a lower tiered match where I might have a chance... much less be able to join a match with friends...
    I pretty much agree with all of the above. Playing in a lower Tier should only handicap firepower in 1 Tier lower. 2 Tiers lower should handicap all, firepower, speed and damage. I think this would be beneficial to all.

    Quote Originally Posted by gencor View Post
    Do you really think that that doesn't happen with the current system? sorry to disappoint but it does... frequently
    I understand it happens I was just explaining to you why you pay for this stuff. Also, from you post it sounded like you didn't understand why you shouldn't be able to play beneath you.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sml411 View Post
    I understand it happens I was just explaining to you why you pay for this stuff. Also, from you post it sounded like you didn't understand why you shouldn't be able to play beneath you.
    You are right. I do not understand why I shouldn't be able to play beneath me. I have had 1 reasonable match in FFA in my last 15 matches and yet the system won't drop me back down. The tier system is broken and there should be a method of joining into a match that you would like to join if you pay to play on the system. Yes, I could start a server and invite people to join but it would be soooo much easier to join the server then chat with the people in the game and ask them if they would like to (they might not be on the friends list...). Most likely they won't be interested though since I can't offer them anything extra by joining a server that I started that they wouldn't already have in the match that they would be already playing in (well maybe for 3 players if they are on the friends list). Btw, not everyone's aim is soo high that lowering damage wouldn't make a difference. Have a look at my stats. Lowering damage would definitely have an effect for me. My aim isn't that high. In fact my frag/death ratio isn't that great either. I can see that it might be an issue for pro players and *cough* automated players but that's already an issue in the higher tier and there are other ways to deal with them that doesn't restrict the rest of us.
    Last edited by gencor; 07-01-2012 at 03:37 PM.
    May the lag be with you...

  7. #27
    *sml411
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    Many have a problem with the Tier system and even if we had 100 million players people would still complain about it. If you want to play with your friends then get a private server. Not everybody is nice like you and will be nice if allowed to drop down a Tier. We tried that and it didn't work. Who cares that you are a paying member. So a mean paying player is allowed to drop down a Tier and beat the crap out of everybody and ruin the game for 9 other paying members. Where is the justice in that. id reads these posts but they are on their own agenda. We all complain about pretty much the same stuff and they give us solutions or additions on things that nobody asked. So enjoy it the way it is and that's all I can tell you.

  8. #28
    Member gencor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by sml411 View Post
    Many have a problem with the Tier system and even if we had 100 million players people would still complain about it. If you want to play with your friends then get a private server. Not everybody is nice like you and will be nice if allowed to drop down a Tier. We tried that and it didn't work. Who cares that you are a paying member. So a mean paying player is allowed to drop down a Tier and beat the crap out of everybody and ruin the game for 9 other paying members. Where is the justice in that. id reads these posts but they are on their own agenda. We all complain about pretty much the same stuff and they give us solutions or additions on things that nobody asked. So enjoy it the way it is and that's all I can tell you.
    Somehow you seem to have missed the entire point about suggesting a forced handicap when playing below rated tier... If it was attempted then I seemed to have missed it... Oh well... I feel like I'm wasting my breath. Fix it or don't. Just realize that if it isn't fixed then the number of active players will continue to drop until the servers get shut down completely... Then again... it is an old game. Maybe that's what they are aiming for... people to leave on their own without having to look like the bad guys for shutting it down while there is still activity... Either way... if many people complain about the tier system but nothing changes then they obviously couldn't care less about trying to fix it. The sad thing is that I can remember them advertising this as being a fun system to play on due to the fantastic skill matching... That certainly didn't seem to last very long...
    Last edited by gencor; 07-02-2012 at 12:25 AM.
    May the lag be with you...

  9. #29
    Senior Member pikaluva13 will become famous soon enough pikaluva13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gencor View Post
    Somehow you seem to have missed the entire point about suggesting a forced handicap when playing below rated tier... If it was attempted then I seemed to have missed it... Oh well... I feel like I'm wasting my breath. Fix it or don't. Just realize that if it isn't fixed then the number of active players will continue to drop until the servers get shut down completely... Then again... it is an old game. Maybe that's what they are aiming for... people to leave on their own without having to look like the bad guys for shutting it down while there is still activity... Either way... if many people complain about the tier system but nothing changes then they obviously couldn't care less about trying to fix it. The sad thing is that I can remember them advertising this as being a fun system to play on due to the fantastic skill matching... That certainly didn't seem to last very long...
    Actually, the skill-matching works fine. It's just because there's not enough players that the skill-matching appears to be at fault, when that's not the case. If there were more players playing, then the matches would probably be more balanced (provided that people don't intentionally stack the teams by playing with a clan)

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