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Thread: cl_mouseaccel minimum?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa's Avatar
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    You do have it set to 500 hz right? There is no negative accel until 1.55 m/s that way.

    Sens 1.8 at 400 cpi 0.022 yaw is ~57 cm/360, which is extremely low. You'll be hitting that 1.55 m/s easily, but really I think this setting is unplayable.

  2. #12
    Senior Member thech is on a distinguished road
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    i know, i keep lowering the sens cause i hate when the mouse feel loose... not sure whats going on, i started off with 2.25, played with that for like forever, then i got a new wmo and i tried to adjust it and it ended up on 1.83, i kept changing between 1.79 and 1.83, was ok like that, now i got a new wmo, and it just did not feel right at 1.83, i kept lowering until i found something and im down to 1.51, i keep trying to up it but it just feels loose, i would even want it to become a little more firm, keep struggling with 180's with it that low... if u checked my accuracy its not really right, its mg spam on ctf4 cause i play that alot, on other maps its between 35-60%acc so im doing fine with it, even heard strenx plays with sens 1.

    but u say wmo hits neg acc on 1.55m/s, maybe the negative accel is the way i like it to be from the start? i mean, small movement feels kinda loose, i always overdo my shots on the small movement, but when i do like 90 degree+ flick, fast movement then that feels good... if u understand what i mean... i play quake like bowling almost, i like to hit in my shots with long movement.... like a punching game, literally.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa's Avatar
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    Strenx is a good point, but he uses 800 cpi so that sens 1 would be 2 for you at 400 cpi.

    So during these "small flicks" are you moving the mouse fast or slow?

    Can you describe the feel you're looking for exactly?

  4. #14
    Senior Member JustLOL is on a distinguished road JustLOL's Avatar
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    m_filter 0, in_mouse 2, MarkC's windows accel fix applied, fps constant? It kinda sounds like something I've been experiencing until I disabled m_filter.. also, try multiple dpi settings if your mouse supports any, maybe it will feel better for you at 800/1800/xxxx dpi. But maybe it will never feel natural or anything close to what you'd want it to feel like.. (I know that's true for me, no matter what settings I use, it never feels right)
    Don't make me angry, The voices in my head don't like it when you make me angry.

  5. #15
    Senior Member thech is on a distinguished road
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    i want firm and linear movement from the start lorfa.

    the mouse feels loose on its intial execution, right from the start, like there is some slack there. its like the initial first few cm's are much more sensitive than when i get the mouse up to speed... its not linear...

    i basically know how far i need to throw the mouse on a 90 degree flick, that works good and all because i have a certain distance to throw the mouse to and i can compensate under the shot, but if im stuck with like a 45 degree flick, which in optimal conditions would just be half the distance compared to the 90 degree flick... it doesnt work like that cause its loose at the start and it both mentally and physically throws out a different value at me to start with, i end up thinking that the mouse is much more sensitive than it is because it acts like that to start with, almost like its operating under 60hz at the start with some mouse accel if i could exagerate it a little.

    its not really an accel thing affecting it either, i have measured, and the measurements turns out linear... its just that it feels different at the start, loose, jiggly, whatever you may call it.

  6. #16
    Senior Member thech is on a distinguished road
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    markc fix should affect in_mouse 2? also running with m_filter off, wmo so its stuck at 400dpi.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thech View Post
    i want firm and linear movement from the start lorfa.

    the mouse feels loose on its intial execution, right from the start, like there is some slack there. its like the initial first few cm's are much more sensitive than when i get the mouse up to speed... its not linear...

    its not really an accel thing affecting it either, i have measured, and the measurements turns out linear... its just that it feels different at the start, loose, jiggly, whatever you may call it.
    The only thing I can think of is that the "firm" feeling you are getting at high speeds is that 1.55 m/s at which negative acceleration starts. That is, the faster you move the mouse the lower your sensitivity will be.

    An experiment you might try is setting the mouse to 125 Hz, which will lower its perfect control speed to ~1 m/s and see if that changes the feeling in a way you like, or at least in a way that gives you insight into the problem.

    I will tell you the settings that I use and why, not to suggest them, but to discuss the difference in feeling with various settings.

    Right now I am using:

    m_pitch "0.028"
    sensitivity "2.9"
    cl_mouseAccel "0.35"
    cl_mouseSensCap "7"

    (Also in_mouse 2, m_filter 0, filter_angles 0, if you're interested in that info)

    The m_pitch is so that at the relatively low sens values I can still make pitch corrections and rocket jumps easily. It also makes it feel as if the yaw is lower, and in fact it is relative to the pitch obviously.

    Sensitivity 2.9 is ~35.8 cm/360, and sensitivity 7 is ~14.8 cm/360.

    I reach sensitivity 3.5 at 0.1 m/s (10 centimeters per second), and sens 7 at 0.7 m/s (70 centimeters per second).

    Close shots with low mouse movement feel low, and the sens drops considerably while I hover over a target to hit a rail. The "starting out" sens is low to me which makes small corrections easier.

    Yet I can always make quick 180s and even healthy 360s if I have to, and rocket jumps which require fast mouse movement are still viable.

    When LG'ing an opponent strafing at medium distance in front of me, I can match their movement a bit easier than if I used accel 0, since their speeds tend to vary faster than I can match with any one sensitivity. Too low and it is difficult to adjust to their sudden long strafes in a new direction in time, too high and it is difficult to adapt to tiny strafes without overshooting.

    While you use much lower sensitivity than I do in general, perhaps with a low senscap, a lower base sens, and some accel you could acquire a more desirable feel. Just an idea, ultimately you have to use what works best for you.

  8. #18
    Senior Member thech is on a distinguished road
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    yes lorfa, i understand the whole accel thing. when i started to get serious about quake with quake3 i started off with some crazy sensitivity like 21, to me at the time it was more important to do fast and pixel perfect 180s, i basically designed my gamestyle on running right at opponents and past them and flick 180 rockets into them... basically accel is accounted for people who cant put themselves in the righ situation before the fight and need assistive technology to help them become quicker on bad placement.... im a low sens player in the sens that i play purely on muscle memory, i need linear and true mouse "feedback", my shots are combo moves between the mouse and the keyboard, when u check my low sens the first thing you said you cant see how anyone can play with that, but its about being ahead of the outcome and think ahead of how you want to fight the situation... like for example if i see an oponent in one place on the map i have already made up my mind about the possibilities of taking him down and adjust my setup for the shot before im there, also goes for key points of the map where the enemy is likely to be, i adjust before i enter, like probably most when they gather experience of the maps that they play, when the shot is taking place when i have reached my spot then i hit off a combo with the keyboard and the mouse, for example, he is 37 degrees off to the right in the horizontal axis by 2 heights up vertically, that tells me 6cm north east by the mouse and i just throw the mouse by muscle memory to the spot i predict him to end up.... its not important to me to have my crosshair or even look in his direction, i flick my mouse into him probably 80% of the times and its more of a punching game in that i throw the mouse into the oponents... same thing goes for close fights with sg, accel players need to restrict their movements in being quick in close combat, which i hate, i rather just know the distance i need to throw the mouse and just punch out the mouse on the mousepad and bust my xhair into him than being superquick at the place he is at to shoot him....

    i tried 125hz, thats when it really hit neg accel, and the mouse feels more like it malfunctions, it kinda locks itself a little, so its not about that im hitting the neg accel on how i have it setup as my regular settings... also 125hz the mouse feels laggy, slow response...

    and its funny how you calculate things, 360 is a good thing to calculate to know the difference between setups, but i could never set up my game for that, to me its more of how i feel that day and i regularly adjust my sens a little depending on how i feel and how the server/ping acts.

    i have tried a bunch of things for the slacky feeling of the initial mouse operation, had it for a long time and never really got rid of it, tried a bunch of things like mouse pads and different sorts of mouse feet in that i could maybe add some friction in that it would be more controllable, but it hurts the overall performance in that too much friction and the action becomes slow, it becomes steady and some of it goes away, but its not a good tradeoff. i even went in to reading about the different types of api's and heard what people think about it, dont think the majority really got any solutions for it, you mentioned floating point, raw does recalculate integer values to start with into float, the closes i have been able to get any clue about this is that its in the api itself... i even thought about building a linux distro and choose the right input method for it, but it seems its affected just like windows is in that sense, not sure you know anything about that.
    Last edited by thech; 05-16-2012 at 01:39 AM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa has a spectacular aura about Lorfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thech View Post
    basically accel is accounted for people who cant put themselves in the righ situation before the fight and need assistive technology to help them become quicker on bad placement....
    Madness.

    You do know that rapha has one of the highest accel values in the pro circuit, and one of his main strengths is being in the right place at the right time.

    The point of accel is to make mousing more natural, if it doesn't do that for you, don't use it.

    im a low sens player in the sens that i play purely on muscle memory, i need linear and true mouse "feedback", my shots are combo moves between the mouse and the keyboard, when u check my low sens the first thing you said you cant see how anyone can play with that, but its about being ahead of the outcome and think ahead of how you want to fight the situation... like for example if i see an oponent in one place on the map i have already made up my mind about the possibilities of taking him down and adjust my setup for the shot before im there, also goes for key points of the map where the enemy is likely to be, i adjust before i enter, like probably most when they gather experience of the maps that they play, when the shot is taking place when i have reached my spot then i hit off a combo with the keyboard and the mouse, for example, he is 37 degrees off to the right in the horizontal axis by 2 heights up vertically, that tells me 6cm north east by the mouse and i just throw the mouse by muscle memory to the spot i predict him to end up.... its not important to me to have my crosshair or even look in his direction, i flick my mouse into him probably 80% of the times and its more of a punching game in that i throw the mouse into the oponents... same thing goes for close fights with sg, accel players need to restrict their movements in being quick in close combat, which i hate, i rather just know the distance i need to throw the mouse and just punch out the mouse on the mousepad and bust my xhair into him than being superquick at the place he is at to shoot him....
    Use what works for you.

    However, I don't feel like I have to "restrict" my movements in close combat. I am still using muscle memory to make shots and I have no trouble.

    i tried 125hz, thats when it really hit neg accel, and the mouse feels more like it malfunctions, it kinda locks itself a little, so its not about that im hitting the neg accel on how i have it setup as my regular settings... also 125hz the mouse feels laggy, slow response...
    Ok.

    and its funny how you calculate things, 360 is a good thing to calculate to know the difference between setups, but i could never set up my game for that, to me its more of how i feel that day and i regularly adjust my sens a little depending on how i feel and how the server/ping acts.
    It was just to give you an idea of my particular setup. I didn't decide on those values in advance.

    i have tried a bunch of things for the slacky feeling of the initial mouse operation, had it for a long time and never really got rid of it, tried a bunch of things like mouse pads and different sorts of mouse feet in that i could maybe add some friction in that it would be more controllable, but it hurts the overall performance in that too much friction and the action becomes slow, it becomes steady and some of it goes away, but its not a good tradeoff. i even went in to reading about the different types of api's and heard what people think about it, dont think the majority really got any solutions for it, you mentioned floating point, raw does recalculate integer values to start with into float, the closes i have been able to get any clue about this is that its in the api itself... i even thought about building a linux distro and choose the right input method for it, but it seems its affected just like windows is in that sense, not sure you know anything about that.
    Was talked about it a bit here:

    http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showt...ouse-2-Windows

    Is it possible the "slacky" feeling you speak of could be entirely physical? As in position of your arm, how hard you press the mouse into the pad, small changes in grip etc.

    There is no software reason that I can think of. The polling rate appears to be lower at low speeds, but I think this is just a symptom of mouserate programs needing enough input to get to 500 Hz.

  10. #20
    Senior Member thech is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorfa View Post
    Madness.

    You do know that rapha has one of the highest accel values in the pro circuit, and one of his main strengths is being in the right place at the right time.

    The point of accel is to make mousing more natural, if it doesn't do that for you, don't use it.
    rapha is the super fast counter who wins off fights that way and takes the map that way... placements comes naturally when you are ahead...


    accel in this game is to yes use the mouse in a more natural way. but its about speed and the distance you have to move for it it to reach a point, a requirement, so that the placement of your aim is at the right spot at all times from any position in the quickest amount of time WHEN its needed... what other than aim and placement is accel used for? its for compensating unknowing play... if you knew what would happen would you really place your back against it and needed super fast turns then?... its about being the first off on the enemy. this is what i call not knowing, its not about intelligence, but the unforseen challenge you have in the game where being quick pays off...

    im talking about knowing the situation. accel is used in duel because you for example need to camp out ra, you dont know where the oponent is and you have to be quick to counter... jumping around a corner and hit a 90 degree rg in a usual spot... its about countering in not knowing what could happen, taking your shots in the quickest possible time... its non intelligent but high skilled play. its different. if u understand what i mean.

    i know its about natural physical movement, but its all about needed for it to be that, but if you are smart about anything you would not place yourself in situations where that super quick action is needed, you could be smoking a cigarette taking it easy and just know how to play the game without any effort at all. i also think accel is for nervous ppl people who sort to intellect rather than their own feelings, but they fail every time in that they lose it when people are faster than them, and speed is not always about being the fastest by the actions, but being ahead of the situation just chilling and just strike where u know it hurts the most.



    i read that thread... did not really get any solution from it... more of an argument with lam and that other guy... but lam seems to be knowing his way around linux, maybe i should ask him...

    i think its system lorfa... yes the physical sense plays a role on how the mouse acts, but i have like a dead spot which is there, its like theres a circle of like 2-3cm, its initial action that feels a little less.... too sensitive in way... if i slide my mouse under my palm with my fingers i can play with it that way and it works. just need to change playstyle for it to work optimally.
    Last edited by thech; 05-16-2012 at 04:54 AM.

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