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Thread: Stuck on the same level, don't know where I'm going wrong.

  1. #1
    Senior Member quakestreme is on a distinguished road
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    Stuck on the same level, don't know where I'm going wrong.

    I'm getting stuck on the same level in duel and I can't figure out where I'm going wrong. Is there anywhere you can see that I'm clearly doing wrong in the demo following?

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/226973/quake...02_07_24.dm_73

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/226973/quake...6-02_07_24.avi

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iprY63qANXQ

    If there's one place I think I can improve it's going for MH or RA way too much, even waiting ten seconds for it to come up. However I did get it sometimes I did this in this game, and I also didn't have to keep myself as well hidden as against a great railer. A very bad start but I don't know what to do from that spawn. Another thing is I guess in some fights where I thought I did ok, they must have actually not been good fights. I wish you could see your opponent's health in the demo, that would be incredibly useful.

    I try and time the RA and MH and occasionally a YA, and mainly try and get a feel for when the YAs should be coming up. This is the advice suggested in one of the well-respected duel guides.
    Last edited by quakestreme; 12-17-2011 at 04:12 PM.
    Aways ensure you are maintaining a high FPS rate in QL. Otherwise you can be at a big disadvantage. To find out your current fps rate, use the command: "set cg_drawfps "1"".

  2. #2
    Banned Fudge911 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Videos would be much moar helpful.

    YouTube > demo.

  3. #3
    Senior Member quakestreme is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    Videos would be much moar helpful.

    YouTube > demo.
    Okay. This is encoded with a single pass because I don't have a super fast computer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iprY63qANXQ

    For some reason the audio on youtube is delayed on my computer, you can just download the avi or demo: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/226973/quake...6-02_07_24.avi
    Last edited by quakestreme; 12-17-2011 at 04:21 PM.
    Aways ensure you are maintaining a high FPS rate in QL. Otherwise you can be at a big disadvantage. To find out your current fps rate, use the command: "set cg_drawfps "1"".

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    Banned Fudge911 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    I'll take a look at it when I get back to my computer. (Posting from my mp3 player currently)
    Last edited by Fudge911; 12-17-2011 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Banned Fudge911 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    I'm not a good player, but here's my two cents:
    Note: I only watched part of the video, so I'll add moar later when I finish it. Also, by time codes I'm referring to the duel timer, not the YouTube time.

    SPAWN:
    Instead of going directly into the teleporter after getting YA, you should've spammed MG at the LG area. 90% of the time if you spawn at YA/RL, then your opponent's going to spawn at LG.
    If he rushes at your from LG, you can do a lot of damage as he goes towards mega, then take the teleporter. After taking the teleporter, you should take the YA near the plasma. If your opponent doubles back after taking mega and goes up the LG jumpad, you can do a lot of damage from plasma. If he goes towards rail and goes through the RA teleporter, you can also do a lot of damage.
    If he doesn't appear, you can take mega uncontested.

    This might help with your spawn plan.

    GAME:
    1) After your spawn plan, you missed a many chances to do damage in favor of running away. For example, as he rj'd up and tried to take RA at the start of the game, you could have dealt massive damage with GL by hitting him as he rj'd up and by spamming RA. By playing passive, you missed the chance to do damage and deny him RA.
    2) At 2:05, you blindly jumped towards RA. You should've bounced nades off the GL ledge to shards to deal damage, because he was standing at shards.
    3) You didn't dodge well at 2:35. You jumped at the momment he railed you, instead of strafing.
    4) At 2:40, you should've gone towards shards/RL if you wanted mega. You shouldn't have blindly rushed mega with only a GL.You should've known he was at top because he fragged you at top.
    5) 2:57 Rushing the hp bubbles was too predictable.
    6) 3:59 You exposed yourself too much. He was at the east shards, you were on the east side of GL, face rocket.
    7) 4:20 You should've moved your mouse and strafed moar.
    8) At 4:30 you got too bloodthirsty and vaulted towards him with 2 health.. without even picking up the 25 hp.
    TO BE CONTINUED
    9) 4:47 was nice; some nice rockets and dodging.
    10 At 4:49 instead of going to shards you should've spammed rockets at the right tunnel of the sg area for a possible spawn frag. I know he didn't spawn there, but if he did, it would've been a free frag. Also instead of rj'ing up to RA and getting left with 5 health and 100 armor, you should've dropped down to rail and picked up the 25 hp, then taken the RA. This has an added benefit of a possible hit if he spawns at LG and goes towards mega or spawns at RL and goes towards mega.
    11) 5:05 Your dodge was meh. Jumping left and right repeatedly is way too predictable and easy to hit.
    12) 5:13 Running towards mega was a bad idea. First of all, you barely did any damage to him beforehand, hardly justifying rushing him to get a frag. Secondly, even mediocre duelers would spam rail with nades to get a spawn kill. Your opponent did not, which I found surprising.
    13) 5:26 Okay you've railed him, now to get the hell out of there. Instead you rail him a second time, but remember that he's stacked. He's just gotten a red, and he was probably at 200/200 or slightly below before you railed him. Even with two rails taken he's going to be stacked. In CA, two rails puts an enemy at 140/0 from 200/100. He was ~200/200, so two rails would do... you get the point. With rail's massive reload time, he could easily drop down and frag you.
    14) 5:43 You seem to be spamming rockets at that are just for kicks. If you're not at least 50% sure that your enemy is in a specific location, don't shoot. It's like sending out a flare that reads "Frag me! I'm over here!"
    15) 6:03 That's such a bizarre frag; I have no idea how he got there.
    16) 6:07 Rushing mega with only rail, when the opponent could have spawned at LG or at RL... Bad idea.
    17) 6:18 Doubling back after killing him was a dumb mistake. If the opponent spawned at LG, like he did, you would've died. It's not even worth it to take the spawn frag at rail if he spawned there, because it would only take 5 mg hits to turn a potential spawn frag into a death.
    18) 6:27 Going to top and spamming RA was a good idea. Your problem was your dodging; you might've gotten the frag if he hadn't hit that rocket.
    19) 6:35 You should've gone towards the 50 hp first. He was obviously heading there, and you could've spammed the area like crazy without exposing yourself.
    20) 7:30 You're at 54 health, he's stacked, why go to mega when you know he's going to be there? To play it safe, you should've kept your distance and just spammed the area without exposing yourself.
    21) 7:43 Those were easy rails. :/
    22) 8:14 Rushing mega with only a rail... Even with 200 health he can easily frag you by lg. If he really wanted to, he could've fragged you but he decided to toy with you and use rail/pg instead.
    23) 8:25 instead of rushing rail, you should've stayed back at mega and spammed the area for a potential spawn frag. By rushing the area, you're forcing him to spawn somwhere else on the map. In this case, above you.
    24) 8:30 You heard him at gl, why did you go through the teleporter? He heard you and spammed nades and got the frag. A better strategy would be just to wait and rail him as he jumps down. If he doesn't jump down you can just pick up shards and maybe rail him if he exposed himself. Even if you had to go through the teleporter, you should've turned right immediately and picked up YA.
    25) 8:40 You have 120/50 and you're spamming plasma at a stacked player. He has rail, and he can easily dodge your plasma and frag you. A better strategy would be to spam plasma at RA but back off IMMEDIATELY when he jumps off RA.
    26) 8:56 You did half the right thing. You spammed plasma at him while he was defenseless, but you ran away after his rail reloaded. You should've run away before he fully reloaded, and run towards LG/jump pad instead of shards/rail. Shards/rail is a wide open space for him to lg you. On the other hand, LG/pad is less open and you can escape easily. Also, YA was going to respawn soon so you could've taken it.
    27) 9:03 Rushing a stacked player with SG and 43 health...
    28) 9:28 Doubling back with a gauntlet and 37 health when you know your opponent's there = death.

    Points 21-30 I lost them because stupid forum logged me out
    GENERAL STUFF:
    SILENT WALK.You don't want your opponent to know where you are.
    TIMING: I noticed that you seemed to miss a lot of item times. Usually mega is taken at 0:05, which means the next spawn is at 0:40. Sometimes you seemed to skip over RA right before it spawned. You only took 6 megas and 7 red armors...
    DODGING: Your movement is predictable. For example, not doding well at 2:35. You jumped at the momment he railed you, instead of strafing.
    MOVEMENT: Simply, you're not moving fast enough. At 2:40 you literally crawled towards mega, which was a mistake in the first place.
    FPS: If you're really playing on 9 fps... Get a new computer.
    Last edited by Fudge911; 12-18-2011 at 10:03 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member quakestreme is on a distinguished road
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    Thank you Fudge911, great post!!! I am finding this really interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    SPAWN:
    Instead of going directly into the teleporter after getting YA, you should've spammed MG at the LG area. 90% of the time if you spawn at YA/RL, then your opponent's going to spawn at LG.
    If he rushes at your from LG, you can do a lot of damage as he goes towards mega, then take the teleporter. After taking the teleporter, you should take the YA near the plasma. If your opponent doubles back after taking mega and goes up the LG jumpad, you can do a lot of damage from plasma. If he goes towards rail and goes through the RA teleporter, you can also do a lot of damage.
    If he doesn't appear, you can take mega uncontested.

    This might help with your spawn plan.
    This spawn information is really valuable, much appreciated. It took me a number of very bad experiences just to stop trying to rush the MH from that spawn. But I don't understand the meaning of that short video?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    GAME:
    1) After your spawn plan, you missed a many chances to do damage in favor of running away. For example, as he rj'd up and tried to take RA at the start of the game, you could have dealt massive damage with GL by hitting him as he rj'd up and by spamming RA. By playing passive, you missed the chance to do damage and deny him RA.
    I was afraid to do this with just GL and him stacked apart from the RJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    2) At 2:05, you blindly jumped towards RA. You should've bounced nades off the GL ledge to shards to deal damage, because he was standing at shards.
    3) You didn't dodge well at 2:35. You jumped at the momment he railed you, instead of strafing.
    Points noted, I'll try and think of these next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    4) At 2:40, you should've gone towards shards/RL if you wanted mega. You shouldn't have blindly rushed mega with only a GL.You should've known he was at top because he fragged you at top.
    Actually I was trying to GL up to RA there. I was starting to look down when I heard him coming out of the teleporter and then I knew I was toast. He was up top, but if you keep looking he then fell down and collected YA. Then he went through the teleporter to come out on top again, and MH was close to spawning also, so it's possible he have might grabbed MH and then went for RA through the top teleporter without having to RJ. I thought I might be able to sneak it with a GJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    5) 2:57 Rushing the hp bubbles was too predictable.
    Yes. They are tempting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    6) 3:59 You exposed yourself too much. He was at the east shards, you were on the east side of GL, face rocket.
    7) 4:20 You should've moved your mouse and strafed moar.
    Yes, next time I will try and do things differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    8) At 4:30 you got too bloodthirsty and vaulted towards him with 2 health.. without even picking up the 25 hp.
    The reason I did that at 4:30 is that I thought he would try and cut me off from going through the teleporter. If you notice I RLed to the left of that pillar because I guessed that he might try and come around that side and I would hit him with a good rocket Then I would run over and collect the MH. In my dreams I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    9) 4:47 was nice; some nice rockets and dodging.
    Thx.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    10 At 4:49 instead of going to shards you should've spammed rockets at the right tunnel of the sg area for a possible spawn frag. I know he didn't spawn there, but if he did, it would've been a free frag. Also instead of rj'ing up to RA and getting left with 5 health and 100 armor, you should've dropped down to rail and picked up the 25 hp, then taken the RA. This has an added benefit of a possible hit if he spawns at LG and goes towards mega or spawns at RL and goes towards mega.
    11) 5:05 Your dodge was meh. Jumping left and right repeatedly is way too predictable and easy to hit.
    12) 5:13 Running towards mega was a bad idea. First of all, you barely did any damage to him beforehand, hardly justifying rushing him to get a frag. Secondly, even mediocre duelers would spam rail with nades to get a spawn kill. Your opponent did not, which I found surprising.
    Okay, I must admit bad play by me there. I can't specifically remember why ran that way with rail, it sounds a bit like he is above me but of course that would be impossible. Maybe I just thought that he is getting RA and I won't challenge for it and just thought he would be gone by then. At 4-0, maybe I was also getting frustrated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    13) 5:26 Okay you've railed him, now to get the hell out of there. Instead you rail him a second time, but remember that he's stacked. He's just gotten a red, and he was probably at 200/200 or slightly below before you railed him. Even with two rails taken he's going to be stacked. In CA, two rails puts an enemy at 140/0 from 200/100. He was ~200/200, so two rails would do... you get the point. With rail's massive reload time, he could easily drop down and frag you.
    Yes, I should have railed and ran. A bad way to get stuck, and I didn't dent him badly for my next spawn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    14) 5:43 You seem to be spamming rockets at that are just for kicks. If you're not at least 50% sure that your enemy is in a specific location, don't shoot. It's like sending out a flare that reads "Frag me! I'm over here!"
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    15) 6:03 That's such a bizarre frag; I have no idea how he got there.
    It is a bizarre frag. For some inexplicable reason after he fragged me he ran over and stood at the teleporter with RG. There happened to be a RL in front of me so luckily I could RJ to red and then I heard him with RG.... I looked up to the teleporter exit because that's where I thought he must have been but he wasn't... so it could only actually be directly under me. Maybe he was trying to get at RA but was afraid to go through the teleporter because I was above. But he should have heard that I just got RA and should have known I would hear him. Also, unfortunately my mouse automatically jerks down on very rare occasions when I move it super fast, and it just happened to occur right there at the end of that frag. If that didn't happen, then maybe I wouldn't have died. However I really like this mouse.

    Maybe it was some sort of trap, because he was for some reason rushing towards the teleporter exit with RL... or maybe he just noticed RA was stolen. He must have been very surprised to see me hammering him with rockets and having gotten a stack/RA from the spawn so fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    16) 6:07 Rushing mega with only rail, when the opponent could have spawned at LG or at RL... Bad idea.
    17) 6:18 Doubling back after killing him was a dumb mistake. If the opponent spawned at LG, like he did, you would've died. It's not even worth it to take the spawn frag at rail if he spawned there, because it would only take 5 mg hits to turn a potential spawn frag into a death.
    Honestly, I thought I was a bit unlucky there. MH was spawning in two seconds. If I got that frag it would be 7-3 and I would still have a chance. Of course I was lucky he didn't spawn at LG to begin with though. Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    18) 6:27 Going to top and spamming RA was a good idea. Your problem was your dodging; you might've gotten the frag if he hadn't hit that rocket.
    19) 6:35 You should've gone towards the 50 hp first. He was obviously heading there, and you could've spammed the area like crazy without exposing yourself.
    Point taken, but I got YA and the small health bubbles... he just got MH and RA. He was stacked, if you notice I hit pretty much a direct rocket at him and Keel wasn't under 100.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    20) 7:30 You're at 54 health, he's stacked, why go to mega when you know he's going to be there? To play it safe, you should've kept your distance and just spammed the area without exposing yourself.
    Yes, that was nonsense. I guess I just wanted something to bring me back into the game as he was taking everything and I couldn't even go out to SG when I tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    21) 7:43 Those were easy rails. :/
    Well, I got 2/3 of them, and the only one I didn't get was a through-rail, ie. QL code. I do think my opponent was letting himself open to be railed too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudge911 View Post
    SILENT WALK.You don't want your opponent to know where you are.
    TIMING: I noticed that you seemed to miss a lot of item times. Usually mega is taken at 0:05, which means the next spawn is at 0:40. Sometimes you seemed to skip over RA right before it spawned. You only took 6 megas and 7 red armors...
    DODGING: Your movement is predictable. For example, not doding well at 2:35. You jumped at the momment he railed you, instead of strafing.
    MOVEMENT: Simply, you're not moving fast enough. At 2:40 you literally crawled towards mega, which was a mistake in the first place.
    FPS: If you're really playing on 9 fps... Get a new computer.
    Alright, I will try to take all of these into consideration. Of course the ~9fps is just the speed wolfcam is outputting the jpegs. I explained the movement at 2:40 and the fact I was going for RA there also. I only took six megas... however it wasn't for want of trying to get the megas. Past ~9:00 I was just getting desperate and not trying my best anyway (or him) so at least it was at the end that the points was lost. Thanks again for the input.
    Last edited by quakestreme; 12-17-2011 at 10:03 PM.
    Aways ensure you are maintaining a high FPS rate in QL. Otherwise you can be at a big disadvantage. To find out your current fps rate, use the command: "set cg_drawfps "1"".

  7. #7
    Banned Fudge911 is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Honestly, the analysis helped me just as much. It helps me think smarter the ndxt time I play. Half the time I don't even follow my own advice and make stupid mistakes, which I'm trying to stop. :P
    Anyways thanks for your comments. I'll re-add moar points later.

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