Flow is still great. The mid defender is at a disadvantage though. The mid defender will have a hard time defending base, and any offense will have a hard time justifying using the shard/rail entrance. Given that it only offers 20armor, a rail gun, and an INCREDIBLY hard jump over to what amounts to an easier entrance into the base. Have you ever tried running mid defense with a green armor and 20armor in shards? It's sort of a smack in the face, and you might as well close off the entrance, as a spot for the mid to rail from exclusively.
Perhaps more armor accessible to mid. I really can't think of any maps that offer armor to players for sucessfully defending mid since it really places alot of pressure on the mid defender to never make a mistake.
Much of this map will really fall on the mid defender's ability to communicate to the base defender entries or hit every single shot on the enemy mid defender to acquire the red armor. I don't know of any maps that make the goal of midding grabbing a non-symmetrical piece of armor. Most of them often play so well because the offense/mid's goals change depending on whether or not offense is able to steal pickups from the other team's defenders. Focus on this sort of play, because it is the most common type, and its the most interesting to watch.
Maybe make the jump from RG to High SG easier, so the mid can help base depending on his state of affairs.
Also, consider making the drop for GL to PG/ChainGun a little bit more visible. It's there, but it may go unnoticed by less-skilled players, since it is indeed an incredibly viable route, and it will keep people off of base-d's YA.
Indeed a very good map, but base still feels a bit sprawling, scale-wise. Often optimal paths to desireable items are unclear, visually.
This is non-standard but maybe consider putting 2 RA's at mid, and making them spawn in a minute to help chunk plays more clearly. It certainly isn't a huge advantage considering the difficulty one might have getting down there. And on that note it should be more clear that the teleporter is there as a more convenient route for mid, and not a way for offensive attackers to skip over the jump pad from quad/regen platform to high right base entry.
Still better, more sensible entries. I think it is time to start graphically making things a little bit more obvious. But watch the values of less obvious base entries, since high is a harder place for mid to defend, on this map. Give high more reward for hitting all the rockets they will surely need to use.
Dang, that's some excellent feedback! I always love to see in-depth stuff like this, so thanks for sharing it.
I see what you mean overall about the mid-high defense having trouble navigating around the high perimeter of the room, as well as having little to work with for the task they are undertaking. Perhaps I can throw in an additional GA on the high walkway past the tele exit? This would give the defenders some more stock to work with, which would lessen the pressure on them. Maybe with some rocket ammo on the side to allow them to restock without having to go into a disadvantaged position. I'll also extend the RG walkway, hopefully making RG --> high SG more viable. Maybe I can also make the func_static that appears in 1FCTF and Harvester visible in all gametypes, connected to the upper catwalks with wires (or some decor) to allow mid-high defenders to traverse to the other side without having to traverse through alternate routes. (Or the accel pad suggestion as you mentioned in an earlier post)
Regarding mid teles: Indeed, they can be quite abusable... perhaps I can move them into the water, where the RG ammo is? Offense would no longer try to use it as an alternate route since it'd actually be slower, and therefore more vulnerable, (esp. since people can spam the upper walkway that the tele exit pops you from) yet it'd continue to promote a convenient method of traversing the mid if taking the low water route. (if this is what you meant)
One thing I noticed is that when you are on the floor of the water you can't move toward RA unless you swim up a bit.
Also, change the pictures in the OP to reflect the new version.
Make sure if you're going to put the teles in the water to put them in an area where they cannot be dove into, so that it actually takes time to get to. Putting it where the rail is, you can just climb up the ladder and jump into it.
Here is a video of me exploring your alpha 2 and thinking out loud. Hope it helps. :)
Download: Alpha 3
- Connection from midbase YA to high SG removed due to potential abuse / unpredictability by offense. (resp. to cityy)
- Enlarged the dropdown next to the GL to make it more clear. (resp. to baaked)
- Created a new walkway in the right section of the front base, connecting the right upper entrance platform to the RG / shard walkway. This also shortens the jump from RG to right upper entrance, allowing for an easier route for mid defenders to navigate. (resp. to cityy, baaked)
- Open GA platform replaced with a small corridor. Grabbing the GA opens some bars in front of it.
- Moved the left upper entrance 64 units towards the right. (resp. to cityy)
- Merged the two mid-level base entrances. (resp. to donka)
- Added a second RL and a GA to the upper mid areas, giving mid defenders some resources to work with. (resp. to baaked)
- Moved the mid teleporters underwater, directly underneath their previous locations. (resp. to baaked)
- Removed some columns / supports. (resp. to cityy, donka)
- High central platform in mid now appears in all gametypes, to allow for faster navigation across mid. (resp. to baaked)
- Clip brush added to floor of underwater area so that the RA spawn pad doesn't clip. (resp. to MexicanPadre)
Any comments or advice on the third alpha? What do you think of the changes? Need to hear your thoughts so I can move on to the beta phase and work on visuals.
I will look at it this evening. Didn't have a chance over the holidays.
There you go, didn't have a whole lot of time today but I think this is going in a good direction!
Well, at some point in the development of this I went through a few optimization-related nightmares which left me severely demotivated. Tremendous amounts of hinting. And I moved into a new home yet again, so yeah... fortunately, however, I managed to get things tied up, and now feel comfortable with releasing the first beta!
Download: Beta 1
- Established visuals and sound effects.
- Added team locational info.
- Added directional arrows.
- Added Race gametype support.
- Added advertisements.
- Added intermission.
- Added a large pipe that can be used to drop down from the
high YA ledge in the midbase room to the bottom of the
SG room. (resp. to cityy)
- Extended the high mid platform to allow for better flow when
jumping across. (resp. to cityy)
- The GA bars no longer appear in gametypes without items.
- Texture misalignments.
- Missing sounds / textures. (Packing QL maps is a nightmare!)
- Cap the patches for the bars (this will probably sound stupid, but how do you link a brush / patch in Radiant to an existing brush entity? I attempted to make a separate func_door in the form of caps with the exact same targetname and parameters as the bars, but they won't move with the bars for some reason)
- Find a way to get the botfile working with IBSP version 47. (I had to use Sock's 2004 bspc compiler since I breached some limits with the old 2000/2001 versions. While it definitely works like a charm, I had to downgrade the map to version 46 to make it function. This doesn't have any effect on gameplay but if the map ever becomes official then I'll have to figure out how to get it to work with a version 47 .bsp since that is what all official QL maps use. Is there a way to hex-edit the .aas to change its version number like a bsp?)
Very nice, I was hoping for this to be still going!
I hope I will have a few free minutes the next days to check it out, time is short on me lately unfortunately which is why I don't post a whole lot here.